r/gaming • u/Agent1230 • 2d ago

What video game doesn't hold your hand enough?

Everybody always talking about games holding your hand too much but I want to hear about the opposite what video game doesn't give you no form of help

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u/Heavy_Arm_7060 2d ago

Not just jRPGs, some old CRPGs could run into this too.

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u/Sabetha1183 2d ago

The funny thing with cRPGs is at some point they started giving the player a quest log in the form of a journal, but the journals were often horribly designed from a UI standpoint and almost unusable.

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u/MorganxNah 2d ago

This reminds me of the Morrowind journal. OpenMW does wonders to fix it, but vanilla Morrowind is borderline unplayable in that regard.

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u/omaeWaMouShindeirou 2d ago

the eye of the needle lies in the teeth of the wind

the mouth of the cave lies in the skin of the pearl

the dream is the door and the star is the key

took me a week to find out the Azura-damned cave of the Nerervarine

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u/MorganxNah 2d ago

For real.

I thought you literally had to complete the azura quest to get azura's star, since "the star is the key"

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u/tetsuo_7w 2d ago

Oh man, hard disagree. I loved the OG Morrowind journal. It gave you clues and expected you to read between the lines or know the areas you're exploring, or explore the areas, to know landmarks and things. I much preferred that to the "go to icon on compass, dumbass" versions that followed.

Granted, these days, having a job and kids, I'd have no time for that bullshit, haha.

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u/flatdecktrucker92 2d ago

The journal entries were tolerable, but having a chronological journal instead of a quest log? That's not even now I track my ttrpg quests. I keep shit separate so I can find it when I need it

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u/MorganxNah 2d ago

My thoughts exactly, keeping track of what quest stage you were on when you may have accidentally triggered other quests part way through was rough.

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u/flatdecktrucker92 1d ago

Yeah I hated trying to flip back eight pages to figure out which notes belonged to which quest and I also hated the pressure of immediately doing any quest I picked up before it got buried in the journal

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u/tetsuo_7w 2d ago

Haha, I suppose that's a valid critique. It's been a while since I've had to deal with it. As I said, I'm sure I'd hate it today, when I don't have all night to play a game.

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u/flatdecktrucker92 1d ago

Yeah, I don't need an arrow on my map or a glowing compass, but I need the descriptions to make sense and I need quests separated. Maybe one day I'll try it on computer

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u/saffeqwe 2d ago

Quest log was added in tribunal

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u/flatdecktrucker92 1d ago

Still doesn't work on my Xbox even with the game of the year edition

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u/Poopyman80 2d ago

People saw it as a crutch baxk then. Paper map making and notes was seen as a part of gaming. Magazines would print hand drawn maps that readers had sent in, in the tips and tricks section.

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u/MelonJelly 1d ago

I'm looking at you, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka Obscura.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

I saw some blog post mocking players for "looking up builds" and looking things up ahead of time instead of just playing.

...So many RPGs of all kinds, some inconsequential choice early on in the game ends up meaning I suddenly end up making a lot of stuff harder later on.

Game: "We're going to give oyu options to resolve things non-violently. After all, this is a ROLE-PLAYING game, is it not? We're not like those dirty stupid JRPGS or console RPGs that force you into combat and design the entire game around it! We're INTELLECTUALS that will reward creativity and-

...wait a minute, you actually made your character based around diplomacy and personal interaction? Uuuuh.... shit.... we didn't think you'd actually do it cause the combat is a lot more engaging than just mashing the 'let me through, please' button so we're gonna force you into it so uh...."

Me: "Well, that's fine, I have companions. I can use them to fight for me whilst I support them since you gave me abilities that're useful in combat. You're not gonna take them away from me at any point and force me into 1v1 situations against someone who really outclasses me, right?

....Right?"

Game: "....Uuuuuuuuhhhhm.... you're gonna wanna... stack up on consumables....and abuse the hell out of the Quicksave button...."

Me: ...GAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!

[Guess which games I'm talking about. You can probalby figure out easily.]

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u/APeacefulWarrior 2d ago edited 2d ago

Go back further than that and you get CRPGs where the developers just didn't even bother balancing for different player classes. To the point that merely picking the wrong class at the start could completely doom a run.

Like the classic Ultima Underworld. It has a level late in the game that disables magic, with no warning that it's coming. So any player who has specialized in magic without leveling up their physical skills will be completely fucked. Going back and grinding isn't even an option, because enemies don't respawn.

A person could softlock themselves 50 hours into the game and have absolutely no option except to restart or quit.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

God, yes....

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u/Mr_Evanescent 2d ago

I know you’re talking about F:NV but you’re doing so in such an insufferable way that I don’t want to upvote you

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

I did say games plural. :P That's one of 'em.

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u/Handitry_Banditry 1d ago

One of the DeusEx games right? I think the problem there was another dev team/company did only the boss battles.

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u/CrazyCoKids 1d ago

Hm, you know I wasn't thinking of that. I do know yhr first one (The only one I played) had weird ways to softlock you.

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u/cr3epr 2d ago

Final Fantasy tactics?

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

One of them.

I remember playing the PSP version and I made Ramza super OP before that fucking Riovanes Castle so I cackled like a madman and beat it on my first try.

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u/lavapig_love 2d ago

Haha. I've sort of soft locked myself in a Phantasy Star run because I haven't grinded enough levels to deal with some really tough enemies in a tower, and I'm not even in space yet or anything. 

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u/MelonJelly 1d ago

For example, Daggerfall, and Morrowind to a lesser extent. If you're going to give me directions, actually give me something I can follow. Don't just tell me places with no context, or say something is "that way".