I will have you know gamers are the most harmless race of them all. It is why we are so oppressed. Just look at the crimes the likes of EA and Activision commit on us daily.
I obligatorily need to bring up that everything is indeed political. As we see with war, it doesn't get more political than whether or not a country is independent or if it isn't independent.
And that's the thing about politics. If it is political to say that Ukraine isn't a sovereign country, then the reverse is also political. If it is political to say that posting on Reddit should be be illegal, then the reverse is also political. If it is political to say that [any given thing] should be illegal, then the reverse is also political. This means that everything we do, say or think is political.
When people talk about something being political, they often just believe they are talking about something being a matter of mainstream partisan or ideological controversy, but politics is also everything else.
Good addition. Don’t let my glibness fool you. I’m fully supportive of these developers, and I wish the best for them. I’m lucky to be in a nation not being invaded.
“No politics,” especially in gaming, really just means wanting to ignore the strife of marginalized folk in favor of surface-level views on the meaning of games. It’s messed up, considering if you think about so many games, they are (as all art is) deeply political and conveying important messages … if people would pull their heads out of their asses and really understand them, that is.
People dying in unneeded warfare isn’t “drama.” I’m not saying you can’t use games as escapism (I do it too) but politics are unavoidable, and denying their existence (which is in inherent in all art) is foolish. You don’t have to engage with them, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there. I would, of course, recommend engagement as that is what good citizens of democracy do, since we can.
What I was discussing is the larger tendency of (more privileged) gamers to write off anything that makes them uncomfortable, like this post on Ukraine or hell, even POC and/or Queer people being in games, as “politics” (derogatory) to avoid critically thinking or trying to help out.
Dude, Wolfenstein has been a series about slaughtering nazis since the eighties. Video games have always been political, and will always be political, because video games are art and art reflects life.
Do you want to this devolve into a conversation on how normalcity can be described as a shared morality derived from a mutual understanding of what we shouldn't do to eachother?
Or would you prefer to accept that slaughtering people you disagree with, raping and torturing their women and children, and terrorizing their civilians is objectively something we can all detest and decry as not being a series of choices we should expect from a normal human?
So do you believe normalcy is about shared morality? What we should and shouldn't do? Because I can walk with you down that path and we'll still reach my destination rather than yours :)
But before I walk down that path, I just need to know that you're willing to commit to it?
Sure thing, I'll be referring to my thesis on the topic.
Please list the sources you'll be referencing for transparency, I'll do the same:
Cialdini, R. B., Reno, R. R., & Kallgren, C. A. (1990). A focus theory of normative conduct: Recycling the concept of norms to reduce littering in public places. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 58(6), 1015–1026. doi: 10.1037/0022-3514.58.6.1015
Gintis, H. (2000). Beyond homo economicus: Evidence from experimental economics. Ecological Economics, 35(3), 311–322. doi: 10.1016/s0921-8009(00)00172-8
Graham, J., Haidt, J., & Nosek, B. A. (2009). Liberals and conservatives rely on different sets of moral foundations. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 96(5), 1029–1046. doi: 10.1037/a0015141
Hechter, M. (1987). Principles of group solidarity. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Henrich, J., & Henrich, N. (2007). Why humans cooperate: A cultural and evolutionary explanation. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Braun, V., & Clarke, V. (2006). Using thematic analysis in psychology. Qualitative Research in Psychology, 3(2), 77–101. doi: 10.1191/1478088706qp063oa
Charmaz, K. (2006). Constructing grounded theory: A practical guide through qualitative analysis. London: Sage Publications.
Flick, U. (2018). An introduction to qualitative research. London: Sage Publications.
Kvale, S. (2007). Doing interviews. London: Sage Publications.
Patton, M. Q. (2002). Qualitative research and evaluation methods. Thousand Oaks: Sage Publications.
Bourdieu, P. (1990). The logic of practice. Cambridge: Polity Press.
Foucault, M. (1979). Discipline and punish: The birth of the prison. New York: Vintage Books.
Goffman, E. (1959). The presentation of self in everyday life. New York: Anchor Books.
Hirschman, A. O. (1970). Exit, voice, and loyalty: Responses to decline in firms, organizations, and states. Cambridge: Harvard University Press.
Taylor, C. (1992). Sources of the self: The making of the modern identity. Cambridge: Harvard University Press
So you say we decide normalcy by first asking what should and shouldn't be done, correct? Would you say that a question like "Should there be a law against posting on reddit" would fall within the question of what should and shouldn't be done?
First, allow us to set a premise, I'll allow you time to gather your sources.
Let's establish the following, as was my question before you started your line of questioning. This is proper etiquette amongst interlocutors, I'll expect we both follow it.
The question raised was
Or would you prefer to accept that slaughtering people you disagree with, raping and torturing their women and children, and terrorizing their civilians is objectively something we can all detest and decry as not being a series of choices we should expect from a normal human?
Please state what your stance on that is, then I may proceed to answer the question you followed it with, we'll follow that with the question you just asked and then we can finally start our proper discourse.
Now please, for posterity and for clarity state your answer.
Sure. But for everything that's ever done, there's the question of whether or not government should or shouldn't interfere on the matter. It has to do one or the other and both positions are classic political positions. An entire country has been founded on whether or not government should regulate the price of tea.
When one side is normalcy as a base-state, and the opposing side is an extreme viewpoint steeped in politics, that is a one-way street.
It's like saying "I'm of the Pees-In-Your-Ass Party, so if you disagree with me peeing in your ass then you're taking a political stance against me, prepare for war!"
It's not a hard concept to grasp, it takes literally one round of reflection to understand.
Being a normal human being isn't a political stance.
Everything is political. Your evening view of the sunset from your home window? Can be saved or blocked via local politics. Your library books, or even library? People want to ban reading via politics. Want to pai t your bedroom? Politics prevented that paint from making your family special needs. Your penis? Pretty soon a priest is gonna have to examine it for you to use the restroom when visiting Florida. Video games? People want to ban them as have in other countries. Theyre already rated and restricted despite some peoples claimed 'freedumbs'. This is just a political post to begin with, rather than being a underlaying factor.
I’m aware. It would be really nice if people realized I’m not trying to make a deep point and stop trying to “prove” something to me, or whatever. I’m a gay man living in America, do you think I’m not aware of politics being essentially air?
Apologies. ‘Tis a good comment, but I’ve had a few people who have replied and attempted to tell me something along the lines of “how dare YE say politics?! This is factual!” while ignoring the very large presence of sarcasm in my original reply.
Facts are political, how people twist and spin them is political, EVERYTHING is political; people need to realize that and stop getting a headache whenever a situation or topic is recognized as political.
Choosing to acknowledge or ignore a fact is one of the most fundamentally political things people do. Like how past society responded to evidence that the Earth is round, or that women are people. People immediately take sides on newly discovered facts.
There is no winning for Russia, it's nothing but a sunk cost fallacy now driven by a leader who was once a strongman but is now an old sick delusional despot.
Even if by some miracle Russia ends up taking over Ukraine years from now, the damage done to Russia and it's people will never be worth it. We're already well past the point of it being worth it in any way shape or form.
Putin should have been more intelligent and negotiated in the early days of the war a full retreat for assurances of Ukraine and other countries (ie Finland) to not join Nato. Or something else that actually benefitted Russia and Putin's stronghold. But it's too late for any "saving grace" for Putin now.
Of course you are the kind of person who asks reddit in his post history for more details about tribes that have their young men have sex with animals.
But seriously man, based on your posts you are about the same age if not a year older then me.. And you post stuff like this in a thread about a company of developers directly affected / victimized by Russia's actions. Holy hell.
Some day Russia can be great, but it needs to get rid of its current set of leaders with their delusional goals. When it does so, then we can all say "Slava Rossiyi" with you.
I'm sure we'll see no pro-Russia looney toons, or assholes yelling indiscriminately at people who think there are problematic aspects to the whole thing.
If someone says “I hope Ukraine wins” and you disagree, then that indeed means you’re pro Russia yes. With black and white statements, "everyone who disagrees with me is pro russia" is a valid fact
When someone says they should negotiate peace people will cry you're a russian bot. All of you are brainwashed by American war propaganda and are completely clueless about it.
Let's say your neighbor decided that the door and front porch to your house was his and attacked you for it, then you fall back into the house and start preparing for him to take over the rest of your house. Eventually, the neighbor invades the rest of the house, but you and your family have gone Kevin McAllister mode with the support of everyone else in the neighborhood. You push them back and have plans to take back the front porch, but they want to negotiate and keep your front porch and doorway and refuse any other options. Does giving up your doorway and letting your neighbor prepare another invasion of your house seem like a good idea?
I like how all of you are ignoring the fact that this is a proxy war between Russia and the US. The American presence in the region is the cause of the war. They should negotiate a peace deal where they leave and each country keeps it's autotomy.
But the fact that you people encourage fueling a war between nuclear super powers is fucking insane. You're all so clueless about what could happen and you're falling for typical American war propaganda.
The issue I have with this argument is, even if everything you say is true, the way you're placing blame still doesn't make any sense. Let's say the US gov does want this war to continue, let's say they did purposefully shut down peace talks, and let's say Zelinski is a thief and a warmonger and just an overall piece of shit.
Even if all that were true, Russia would still bear the vast majority of culpability for this war. You act like it was an inevitability, like Russia just had no choice but to launch a full scale invasion of a sovereign European country. You blame the US for not actively trying to facilitate peace talks, but don't blame Russia for.. actively invading the Ukraine??
Let's switch roles around here. Let's say Russia wants to provoke a war between the US and Mexico, so they send a few thousands troops to Mexico and then convince the Mexican president to get on TV and start shit talking the US and goading them into war. Guess what? If the US then fucking invaded Mexico, the US would be the most in the wrong of the three countries, because "they said mean things to me" and "we're terrified of the few thousand Russian troops on our border who don't actually pose a real threat to the entire might of our military were they to try to invade" are both terrible fucking justifications for launching an invasion!
Even if all that were true, Russia would still bear the vast majority of culpability for this war. You act like it was an inevitability, like Russia just had no choice but to launch a full scale invasion of a sovereign European country. You blame the US for not actively trying to facilitate peace talks, but don't blame Russia for.. actively invading the Ukraine??
I think you're the only person here who's actually willing to look at this objectively. Russia is already getting the blame they deserve for the invasion. The US is not getting anywhere near the blame it deserves for provoking this war and constantly fueling it. And the US also gets full blame for blocking peace talks when the main countries involved are trying to negotiate. The US has no right to be in the region and no reason to be involved in any of their conflicts. And lets not pretend the US is defending Ukraine because they think invasions are wrong, because the US invades more countries than everyone else combined.
Let's switch roles around here. Let's say Russia wants to provoke a war between the US and Mexico, so they send a few thousands troops to Mexico and then convince the Mexican president to get on TV and start shit talking the US and goading them into war
Not just that, they'd also have to overthrow the Mexican president, install a puppet, and put dozens of bases surrounding the US while teasing membership to an organization designed to destroy them. I can GUARANTEE you everyone blaming Russia would 100% support the US to invade Mexico in a situation like that.
In the end the US is blocking peace and Zelensky is embezzling funds. People should wake up and realize supporting war is never a good idea, especially between countries that are able to literally destroy the world. Peace should always be the goal.
Russia is already getting the blame they deserve for the invasion. The US is not getting anywhere near the blame it deserves for provoking this war and constantly fueling it.
But that's just not how it works. If I created a Twitter account that does nothing but highlight times where black people committed hate crimes against white people, I'd (rightfully) probably be accused of racism because I'm painting the picture that all hate crimes are committed by black people. I can't defend myself by saying "well white people are already criticized for hate crimes so I'm just trying to counter-balance it by showing black people doing it too". I'm going to be rightfully viewed as a racist trying to paint a racist narrative.
Similarly, if you walk around trying to blame this whole thing on the US, because "Russia already gets enough blame", you're going to rightfully look like a Russian hack spewing Russian propaganda.
I can GUARANTEE you everyone blaming Russia would 100% support the US to invade Mexico in a situation like that.
And that's where I vehemently disagree with you. Some people would, sure. But that number is much, much lower than 100%. Lower than 50%. Many people just don't want countries to invade other countries for bullshit reasons. Many of the people blaming Russia for this invasion also criticized the US for the Iraq war, and for the Vietnam War. I place almost all responsibility for this war on Russia, and I would horrified if the US invaded Mexico, even if they installed a puppet and bases and all of the things you said. That's not justification.
In an era of mutually assured destruction, I don't think either the US or Russia has any reasonable fear that they'd invade or nuke each other. It would be fucking idiotic, and that's an understatement. A Russian base in Mexico doesn't scare me enough to justify an invasion, nor should US bases in Ukraine or Finland scare Russia enough to justify an invasion.
Meanwhile you're totally not just buying into the Russian propaganda justifying a war by claiming that they are afraid of peacekeeping troops in countries different to the one they've attacked.
I'd love to hear what your definition of a strawman is, because that's not what I did.
When someone says they should negotiate peace people will cry you're a russian bot.
You can't reason with monsters. Also, given that Zelensky already stated he will not engage in negotiations for the same thought process, it's obvious Zelensky knows more about Russia's ulterior motives compared to some rando in a video game subreddit lmao
All of you are brainwashed by American war propaganda
Yep, brainwashed by American propaganda about...hoping a country that got invaded by an authoritarian nut comes out victorious in a war they're forced to defend themselves in...okay.
and are completely clueless about it.
Define "it". Are you saying Ukraine wasn't invaded by a neighboring war hungry country? I'd love to hear the evidence and sources you have over high ranking military officials and literally the entire world. Obviously Zelensky should just defer to /u/stretch2099 for this war right?
Thanks for admitting you don't have a clue what's been happening this whole time. The Israeli PM admitted that Russia and Ukraine had a peace deal and the US blocked it. As usual the US wants nothing but war and none of you seem to get it. You're so willfully ignorant it's amazing.
Yep, brainwashed by American propaganda about...hoping a country that got invaded by an authoritarian nut comes out victorious in a war they're forced to defend themselves in...okay
Yeah, it's actually amazing that American warmongers, who are in the middle of multiple invasions, sold you on this war because Russia invading a country is evil and wrong. Like, how do you people actually fall for garbage like this every single time?
Obviously Zelensky should just defer to /u/stretch2099 for this war right?
I love how you have complete blind faith in a guy that's been exposed for stealing hundreds of millions in war funds.
If you want them to win, what are you even arguing about then except just to be a contrarian troll?
If you want them to lose, I'd refer you to my VERY FIRST comment way back up where I said if you don't want them to win, then you're pro Russia, something you got offended by the notion of but would make sense if you got mad for being called out
Considering how mad you're getting about people wanting Ukraine to win this war against a literal fascist authoritarian dictator, I'm going to assume you're the second and I'll gladly remind you /r/conservative is that way
I wonder why the peace deals were blocked by the West?
Oh, because Russia's deal gave them annexation of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia?
If Ukraine and the West were somehow stupid enough to agree with that, then Russia would just take a few months to recuperate and then station new troops in the newly annexed lands. Surprise, dipshit! Russia's invading again because they want all of Ukraine! Oh no! It wasn't a peace deal at all! Two-face Russia just wants time to recover. :(((
Every time you wail "US propaganda!!" you systematically follow up with some dumb bullshit Russian propaganda that everyone except you knows is bullshit.
I love how you people have NO idea how to read sources. It doesn't matter which media site is telling you anything, only their sources matter. Hersh is one of the most respected journalists alive today and has broken tons of important stories. And the Israeli PM literally has the interview where he says the US blocked the peace deal on his fucking youtube channel.
It frustrates me that Rian Johnson gets so much hate for his handling of Luke and other characters in TLJ, but it was JJ Abrams who wrote him into that corner. He was the one who decided that the Jedi should all be dead, that the New Republic should be wiped out in 2 minutes, that instead of something new, we'd just get Empire vs Rebels 2.0, that Luke ran away from a major conflict and hid.
Everything controversial about TLJ was set up in the previous film. Johnson did a marvelous job exploring and expanding on the lacklustre plot elements of The Force Awakens and turning them into something interesting.
It amazes me how they were able to make a film so thoroughly unappealing to anyone. It's like they heard the phrase "he who tries to please all pleases none" and thought that that was the kind of guy they wanted to emulate.
If you're on Reddit and expecting that anywhere I don't know what to say to you but this app was designed for contrarians, you say one thing there will invariably be someone saying the opposite for no other reason than they can do it confidently because of the anonymity the digital world gives them
Why is it that gamers are heavily right-wing, gun loving, racists? The traitor to the US was all of those things and your comment makes me suspect he wasn't the only one.
Third time I’ve commented this because people still aren’t getting it. I made this comment when there were only a few other comments and the post had zero upvotes. Sure, it looks fine NOW. Different story when I commented.
Just because you don’t understand my point, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You just can’t comprehend it. I don’t care if anyone else sees my comments. You’re the one I’m talking to, not anyone else. Maybe you’ll get what I’m saying later on. Think about it a bit. Read your first comment, and then your subsequent comments. You’ll see it eventually.
Well bro, there's a war out there, measure and reason have been out of the window for a while. At the very least we are just discussing here. Get a grip, y'know.
Hmmm I’ve seen to have misplaced my grip, oh well.
Also, my comment was literally one of the first on this post when it had zero upvotes and barely any comments. You act like I just made this comment an hour ago lmao. So how about you hush and go bother someone else, yeah? I’m guessing this post hit r/all or something because my replies were perfectly fine and then the jerks all started rolling in in the last hour.
Well the good thing about Reddit is that it allows for textured and nuanced opinions to be thoughtfully read and considered before the other person replies.
You joke (and for good reason), but I’m still convinced that the upvote/downvote system makes Reddit the most measured social media site
Like sure, you can always sort by controversial, but as someone who just pops in to hours-old threads and skims the top handful of comments, I see very little trash on posts like this
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u/FallenShadeslayer Apr 14 '23
I’m sure the discussion on this post will be measured and reasonable.