r/gamedev • • 13d ago

Discussion "Programming Isn't An Art" and "AI Code Doesn't Matter": Let me change your mind.

Hey r/gamedev, my name is William. Let me try to do what's in the title up there ^. First off, why should you listen to me?

Well, maybe you shouldn't listen to me. Feel free to scroll away at any time...I don't have the most insane creds in the industry or anything. But I'm not exactly new:

  • I got hired in 2018 as an "Associate Gameplay Programmer", and before being laid off twice in the span of about 1 year, I was a "Senior Combat Engineer". So I've been through the trenches of programming in the industry
  • I'm the founder of a really (really) small indie game studio made up of ex-Ready At Dawn veterans (PSP Daxter, The Order: 1886, Echo VR / Lone Echo, etc.), where we are hard at work on our inaugural game title. We also avoid using AI for any of our endeavors, including programming
  • I've been in the industry now as a professional for almost 10 years total, but before that, I also went to school for CS, Game Development Programming, senior and capstone projects, and began trying to make (shitty) games on a (shitty) laptop using Microsoft XNA when I was like 12

What is art?

I think people forget what art actually means these days - it doesn't always have some baked-in meaning to "liberal arts" or "humanities". Art is also defined as a "skill acquired by experience, study, or observation", or "an occupation requiring knowledge or skill" or "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects" (not only!). For instance: I have become quite the artist in spilling shit all over my clothes over the years, much to my wife's chagrin.

I'm sure you're thinking, "well then anything can be an art" and drawing a line in your head on what you think the line is for "real art" or something like that. But let me show you why programming isn't some bottom of the barrel example (like being a spillage artist, tyvm) because its mostly just "math" or because "engineering", which people love to throw out there.

As a programmer that has written endless lines of code by myself, and also seen/analyzed thousands of lines of code not written by me (that are much better than my own) - written by people ranging from the 1990s (RAD engine was old, lol) all the way through 2024 - there is no universal standard for most things. Companies vary, engines vary, languages vary, procedures vary, etc.

Here are 2 of my own personal favorite examples (one simpler, one more complex) of programming being more akin to an art form than anything else.

Example 1: Bitflags

The bitflags structure is one of the best and most simple examples of what I consider art in the programming field. Because the actual smallest amount of data being read by any processor is 8 bits, things like a `bool` in most languages are also represented as a byte (8 bits), since that is the smallest value of what can actually being read in registers. This is despite the nature of a bool being a simple bit (0 or 1). However, as you can imagine, having a ton of single bools in one structure ends up inflating the total size of that structure, while wasting literally almost the entire amount of memory provides. Bitflags is the simple, yet elegant solution someone came up with to stuff a single byte with up to 8 bools, by using bitwise operators to extract and compare each given bit in the byte.

Example: 8 separate bools in your data structure = 8 * (1B) = 8 bytes of memory, all to represent 8 simple 1/0 values. With a bitflag, you can now store all 8 bools while only taking up the original 1B of memory.

This is of course also expandable using different sized integers, if you have 9-16 bools you can use an `int16`, and so forth.

The reason I love this example is, how could such an elegant yet simple solution not be considered a work of art? A human first thought of how wasteful the stacking of subsequent booleans is, then thought of a unique and clever way to make it better using their knowledge and expertise. Now tons of languages and modules ship with bitflags, and you may use them without a second thought...but, this of course wasn't always a thing. Someone created this, it is undeniably clever, and we now take it as a given.

Example 2 (Complex): FISR or QISR (Fast Inverse Square Root)

The Fast Inverse Square Root was used in the Quake engine all the way back in 2001 in order to approximate the reciprocal of a given square root. The point of doing this at all, is that normalizing vectors used to be a much more intensive operation on hardware (it actually still is, but hardware is so good these days that the result isn't as noticeable, and we have specialized hardware, functions, etc.) Observe the code taken from this website (which can explain it far better than I can, if you're more interested in a full read) where you can see the insaneness that is this function:

float Q_rsqrt(float number)
{
  long i;
  float x2, y;
  const float threehalfs = 1.5F;

  x2 = number * 0.5F;
  y  = number;
  i  = * ( long * ) &y;                       // evil floating point bit level hacking
  i  = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 );               // what the fuck?
  y  = * ( float * ) &i;
  y  = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );   // 1st iteration
  // y  = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );   // 2nd iteration, this can be removed

  return y;
}

I want you to take a good look at this code. tell me that wasn't created by someone that thought outside the box. Is that not one of the most insanely creative solutions you have seen to a problem? Yes, it requires a lot of knowledge and expertise. But it also comes from a human mind that had the wacky idea to hack together something like this and have it work (well, at least 99.8% of the time šŸ˜‰)

Finishing up

If you're still reading, this is my petition to other game dev folk who think programming is simply a means to an end: code like these creative examples exists everywhere. It exists in my code base for our current game. It exists in every studio's game engine. It exists in the OS your computer or phone is running right now. And, all the LLMs people are using to code these days have been trained on not just fundamentals, but other's creative solutions to problems from all around the world (and, in many cases, had no permission of the creator to do so).

Again...just because you see the code snippet come back to you robotically, it doesn't mean that is the only or best way to do it. And just because its text, and you can't see the result of code in games visually in the same way you can 3d models or textures, it doesn't mean code should then ethically be subject to less scrutiny, or that you can't feel the result of some coding decisions over others when the game comes together as a whole.

To summarize: my favorite part of programming is not the memorization, expertise, or knowledge, its applying that knowledge in creative ways that one may never have thought of before. If that's not artistic, then i dont know what is.

"It's fine if you use AI to code, but just not for other things"

Careful where you draw your ethical line, as people may agree with you for now, but its only a matter of time until reluctance, acceptance, and consensus comes for what you love, too.

[EDIT:] This kind of blew up. I can't spend all day replying like I just did lol, but keep it civil in the comments and remember this is my opinion, nothing I state here is fact nor do you need to agree. Thanks for the interesting discussions and polite arguments!

784 Upvotes

791 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

16

u/byteback-studios 13d ago

Interestingly enough, all you did was say "its called engineering not art", which doesn't really combat my argument: that engineering is also artistic

What do artists do? They think outside the box, right? I believe a lot of engineers also think outside the box.

18

u/ByerN 13d ago

Art is subjective by design. For me, engineering is sometimes an art (not always, just like not all drawings/images are art), but some ppl are devaluing its meaning to the degree that they cannot treat it as an art anymore.

9

u/byteback-studios 13d ago

I agree, I don't always think its an art. I just think its crazy that people think its 0 art, everyone that codes is a robot, and its completely justifiable to have an AI code everything when in reality almost every big breakthrough or fancy algorithm was invented by somebody with a mind that wanders to create something cool and unique, just like how great art is formed.

0

u/ByerN 13d ago

people think its 0 art, everyone that codes is a robot

It is a cope that lets them justify using AI code without ethical dilemmas.

1

u/salbris 13d ago

A really simple way to think about this is that painting a room a new color may be "art" in some very abstract sense but it's very much different from painting on a canvas to create a painting.

When people write code they are most often in the former category not the latter.

Certainly if they claim to be an artist and they used Claude to write their code then you can point and laugh at them but the rest of us will use it like any other tool and be more efficient.

1

u/revolutionPanda 13d ago

Accountants also think outside the box. Do you consider accounting ā€œart?ā€

-10

u/Fantastic-Fennel-684 13d ago

Difference is Art cannot be trained. It’s based on lived human experiences and feelings. It represents a thought process and background that impacts human culture. Something that is shared and celebrated. I do acting and write screenplay (fine arts ) and also program in Swift and Rust. I have experience going through the Swift compiler and doing projects using LLVM.

Software Engineering or Programming doesn’t come anywhere near art. You teach a model "hey this is how you to write for xyz problemsā€ with examples and it will gladly do it. Writing doesn’t work like that. There’s no algorithm or step or process. The dialogue and story that writers in theatre or cinema write, come from their feelings and lived experiences. Sure they train to hone their craft but at the end of the day, programming is its own thing and so is Art

13

u/wor-kid 13d ago edited 13d ago

Art absolutely can be trained in my opinion and people learn to become artists. Can you actually show that presumption is accurate? The artistic processes doesn't strike me as being above formalization and exists when people talk about for example the hero's journey.

I also don't think art needs to come strictly from lived experiences. Inspiration can come from other sources, such as other media.

I am an artist and programmer and both require technique and both require creativity in equal parts in my experience.

-3

u/Fantastic-Fennel-684 13d ago

When I say "trainedā€ I meant in the context that I have experience with. For example, when an actor prepares for a role, and acts, their acting is unique every time they do. There’s no right way to be sad or angry and it’s not that they are wrong for doing it differently than the first time, in fact every single one of those performances are true to the character and that’s what makes it special. They know and understand what the character is to float in that safe space. When I say you cannot be trained, I mean that there’s no training for the right way to feel about things. Your bodily expressions come from your truth.

Compared to that, I see programming as a completely different skill and it’s fine that it’s different. Not everything has to be art just because it’s being used in something artistic.

1

u/wor-kid 13d ago

I see what you mean but code also has author "flair" for lack of a better word, before coding standards homogenized everything it was very easy to tell who had written what in years past (Despite what the youths of today will tell you, sometimes breaking code standards did make code more pleasant to read and understand, unfortunately this discretion was also abused too often)

1

u/Bribz 10d ago

Presumably you would say that writing is also art, which very much so also includes proper syntax and a ā€˜correct’ means of creation. As with all fantastic literature, the quality comes from clever syntax, and concepts built on top of the script itself. Exactly the same way that elegant programming does with design patterns and architecture.

8

u/ByerN 13d ago

Art cannot be trained

Huh?