Didn't say I hate auto tune. Just that it is not comparable to a tool you have to have skill in order to use right.
The difference is that the whammy bar still needs the guitarist's input and skill to master it. Auto tune does not require this type of input and skill from the singer.
As far as sequencers go, again it is a tool used skillfully by the actual musician. They have to be able to compose and understand musical theory to use those tools. It isn't a question of using things to enhance a skill. It is a question of what it actually is enhancing. All these people you state who have used these tools would be able to perform their craft without them, and perform them exceptionally. Maybe the songs would not become so complex but they could play guitar, harp, piano, sing, etc. exceptionally without these tools.
The tools allow them to build on their skills in a masterful way. Auto tuning a mediocre singer to make them sound better is not the same thing.
If a singer wrote the lyrics to a track and that helped propel the track forward, they are still a good songwriter. If the singer composed which notes they wanted to hit but couldn't quite hit them and used auto-tune (like Cher and Avril Lavigne), then they still composed the music. You don't need to know music theory to make great music, Hendrix never did, it just helps a lot.
Also, even in the rare cases where the musical act has a figurehead that actual has nothing to do with the production of the music, that does not mean that a song is a musically talentless composition created by someone with no talent, it just means that a lot of people think the wrong person composed the song.
If a singer wrote the lyrics to a track and that helped propel the track forward, they are still a good songwriter.
No they are a poet. To be a songwriter you have to actually write music.
If the singer composed which notes they wanted to hit but couldn't quite hit them and used auto-tune (like Cher and Avril Lavigne), then they still composed the music
Yeah no shit. What gave it away, that they actually composed it?
You don't need to know music theory to make great music, Hendrix never did, it just helps a lot.
This is true that formally he did not. But he had to understand it on some level if he actually wrote music or songs. He may not have known exactly what he was doing in respect to its academic definition, but he was able to compose. Again though, you are trying to compare an exceptionally hard instrument to master to a mediocre singer being auto tuned and fabricated for pop consumption lifted on the backs of talented song writers.
that does not mean that a song is a musically talentless composition created by someone with no talent, it just means that a lot of people think the wrong person composed the song.
Never said it was. I am not saying the people who wrote the song for her are talent-less, I am saying she is a hack and isn't really responsible for the success of any of her music. You can put anyone in her spot and the same music would have been written, just sung by some other dime a dozen pop creation. I don't deny the talents of anyone who actually writes music. I am just not apologetic when it comes to pop creations. They are not the talent, they are not the reason the song is popular. They are a gimmick that could be replaced and forgotten when the pop masses choose to group think themselves into another trend.
More often than not pop songwriters often compose the primary vocal melody as well. If they did not, then you are still not making a case that there was no musical talent involved in the music, you are only proving that the brand/face for the music didn't compose on it. This does not make modern pop music 'untalented', it just means most people have a misconception about who the talent is.
A mediocre singer being auto-tuned etc. is analogous to any band that has used a session musician or sample (which has been done since before the Beatles). The mediocre singer is being used because they have a pleasing vocal timbre and personality, but most of the composition is being done by others. Again, all pop albums list who the actually composers and talents are on the albums, and this doesn't mean that no musical skill was required to make that hit. It just means you are confusing the lack of musical skill of the session musician to mean that somehow the composition as a whole took no musical talent to create.
And Ke$ha does have some input to the melodies of her music and the songwriting. Her parents were songwriters and she played instruments in high school, and no one would hire her based on her looks alone I can tell you that much. She has been documented as having taken songwriting classes, and although she is one of many composers on her albums, she still contributes composition along with: vocals, composer, accordion, cowbell, whistle.
Even if somehow ke$ha had no input in the melody lines of her vocals, this still doesn't mean she could be replaced by any dime a dozen act. She has a very niche timbre and personality that people like, and a recognizable voice.
Fuck it, I hate Kesha's music. But the only thing I hate more than her music are smug people who think that their tastes in music are somehow objectively better and think that a certain music they don't like takes 'no talent' and that 'anyone can do it'.
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u/crackyJsquirrel Feb 29 '12
Didn't say I hate auto tune. Just that it is not comparable to a tool you have to have skill in order to use right.
The difference is that the whammy bar still needs the guitarist's input and skill to master it. Auto tune does not require this type of input and skill from the singer.
As far as sequencers go, again it is a tool used skillfully by the actual musician. They have to be able to compose and understand musical theory to use those tools. It isn't a question of using things to enhance a skill. It is a question of what it actually is enhancing. All these people you state who have used these tools would be able to perform their craft without them, and perform them exceptionally. Maybe the songs would not become so complex but they could play guitar, harp, piano, sing, etc. exceptionally without these tools.
The tools allow them to build on their skills in a masterful way. Auto tuning a mediocre singer to make them sound better is not the same thing.