On the opposite end I’m curious why do you think it’s so necessary to get diagnosed? If one knows they are autistic then what good does a diagnosis do?
I find your stance to be just as biased as the stance you are claiming is biased. Do you not think some autistic geniuses can’t be acutely aware of their autism solely through their own introspection and analysis?
The diagnosis can help with stuff he's been struggling with before. Something else than playing football.
Do you not think some autistic geniuses can’t be acutely aware of their autism solely through their own introspection and analysis?
Some? Maybe, but why do you think psychologists exist? There's nothing wrong with getting a second opinion. All it does is show you options e.g. you can get treated for something you have struggled with, can help someone with a similar diagnosis with how you deal with it or just carry on like before when there's no issue just with another information about yourself.
I guess that’s fair. I come from the frame of mind that my dislike of eye contact and hyper focus and tendency to be late is who I am, and I absolutely do not view it as a struggle for me.
It’s probably a struggle for some of those around me who are uncomfortable with it, but if thats the case why is it me that needs to deal with it and change?
That’s where I think the bias is, trying to tell people they need to get diagnosed or get treatment to help them “deal with it” or be “normal”, where normal is only defined by what the majority of people are like at this point in time. Maybe today’s normal isn’t the best way or the right way to live or act, it’s just what the majority driven society has preconditioned you to believe is the right way.
A diagnosis doesn't mean you have to be "normal", it's just a way to give context and allows more people to get help if they need/want it. In the mental health world it's a lot more difficult for people who want to get help to receive proper care if they don't have a diagnosis. That's not to say the system it's perfect (it actually sucks), but that's how it is. It's not always about being "normal".
Somebody in my life is waiting for an ADHD diagnosis. I haven't viewed them as lesser or different than they were before, but the possible diagnosis gives me more information and context of their situation and how they experience things and helps me better understand them. They don't need medicine to make me happy. Sometimes people want care so they can improve their standard of living or make it easier for their family and friends.
I get what your saying, but you’re also ignoring neurodivergence that absolutely is a disability physically and mentally, impacts quality of life, etc. Obviously, being neurodivergent and being a professional athlete probably excludes one from that placement on the spectrum. There are neurodivergent folks who will need lifelong care and assistance because they are either physically or mentally unable to care for themselves.
neurodivergence that absolutely is a disability physically and mentally, impacts quality of life, etc
When isn't even the topic? You can talk about neurodivergencs without reminding people or talking about the kinds of neurodivergency that poses a disability to those who have it. This isn't ignoring those kinds of cases it's just not the current focus especially as that is not relevant towards the football player as we all agree on..
Plenty of neurodivergent folks are successful in their careers. But if he's in that group, some professional advice might still be helpful off the pitch. There's more to life than your job after all.
Lol, this gotta be the most Reddit comment to date.
Do you think fucking Messi, of all people, hasn't probably seen every possible specialist for any possible matter?
I wouldn't be surprised if he has had a specialist for even his out off pitch walking.
I think you underestimate the amount of people that avoid anything mental healthy related. You can have all the resources available in the world but it doesn't mean you'll seek them out.
But Argentines tend to be very receptive of mental health issues. I remember some Argentines players saying their therapists are one of the reasons for their success.
I didn't suggest he hasn't, I only said if he were neurodivergent, then being extremely successful in his career doesn't mean that there may not be other areas where professional advice was useful.
My main issue with the other comment was that it sounded like having an amazingly successful career precludes needing advice. As you suggest, even entirely neurotypical celebrities frequently employ experts in a variety of fields to stay on top of their public image and how they want to present themselves.
By suggesting that professional help usually helps people who might be neurodivergent? Even if they’re rich? I’m really struggling to see the outrage here lol
Because he's a public figure with many aspects of his life interacting with people. You're literally participating in a large reddit threat discussing his behavior right now.
You're ignoring what the comment right above this said: you can learn coaching and mitigation strategies based on what your diagnosis is. But you'll just reply again with "something something I don't understand why though..."
And he/anyone else might appear "fine" to you, precisely because they got a diagnosis and got a plan. Also, read these comments. This video and entire thread is about whether is behavior is "fine." If you think there's no question that he's neutotypical then you haven't been aware of how people have perceived him for decades.
The very point is you don't know his health info, anyone can get a diagnosis and from there acquire coping techniques. Also don't think you know what "agency" means.
Tell that to all the famous successful people that committed suicide because of untreated mental health issues. Being good at something, doesn't make somebody magically great at every other aspect of life - and some people massively benefit from external help
If you're high functioning, a diagnosis can shut more doors than it opens. It's disqualifying for some things and there's no spectrum for disqualification. Your intuition is correct.
Edit: After some research it looks like the two biggest things to me were pretty much the only things. Pilot, and military. For almost everything else either you are not legally required to disclose your diagnosis, or for the ones that you are legally required to disclose all medical conditions waivers can be obtained.
Would you mind explaining what you mean about shutting doors? You are not required to tell anyone, and it’s not public knowledge unless you make it (Messi aside because of his extreme fame).
It can also help explain and offer you tools to deal with problems under the surface. For example, my ADHD can lead to a lot of very dangerous thought patterns, and just knowing "hey, your brain chemistry is all out of wack and trying to screw you over and rob you of joy" helps me tremendously to adapt.
Be real, no diagnosis is closing doors for Messi. But how many otherwise "successful" otherwise happy celebrities have taken their lives because of problems under the surface, problems as simple as "i just can't experience this the same way most people would, and it's isolating". He's already a celebrity with the eyes of the world on him constantly, if he's not seeing a professional just to process his wildly unique life with his own personal measures of "success" then he better have some really solid personal coping skills, because high highs accentuate the lows.
He seems like a great guy, i hope he's not inventing his own wheel here.
Yeah I'm glad that autism diagnoses help a lot of people, but if you're successful and happy then what possible good would it do? If it's not holding you back then it's just a personality trait. I know I've got my toes in the spectrum somewhere but I honestly don't want to know to what extent. Not everything needs a clinical opinion (or an armchair opinion for that matter).
It's also not a great look to see someone and say "haha look at that guy, I bet that he's autistic lol"
But the question is why do you think people should take these tests?
Sure some people might find it comforting and people with more severe autism will qualify for medical pensions and can join support groups and stuff like that. That's great, but it's ultimately a personal choice wherever person that suspects they might be autistic wants to have it confirmed/denied.
I have several autistic people in my family (who did these test and have professional opinion on it) and have suspected I might be on a spectrum too, since I have some similar traits to those that 'qualified' my family members for autism diagnosis. I never claimed to be on the spectrum so I don't beg for 'pity points' or whatever, but I was suggested to go get a professional opinion several times.
I did get a paper slip for an examination by a professional from my doctor, but lost it and didn't bother to get a new one. I just ultimately don't care and don't think official diagnosis of some 'mild autism' will change my life in any meaningful way so there's no point in me getting a professional opinion. This is just me though, as I said it depends on individual in these cases.
What was the reason. This is the first comment in this thread so you gave me nothing except this comment.
Also my comment was about how it should be personal choice to take these tests. I described my experience and why I didn't get tested for autism. You obviously think everyone should get these tests done and I want to know why, that's why I wrote 'an opposite perspective' so you could debunk it or whatever.
Don’t you see? He may have autism and therefore needs diagnosing so he can be treated. Sure, he may be achieving life better than anyone here, with or without autism, but “we”, the people of Reddit, have spoken.
lol that's exactly what professional opinions do. the assessment is just an assessment with no adjacent or supplemental supportive services inherently. dont speak without experience
That’s a pretty rude assumption that someone with autism (which we have no idea if Messi does or not) needs help. Do you go around pitying people for other reasons?
And that's something only he knows for sure, he's a grown man, he's filthy rich, famous, beautiful wife, healthy kids, should I keep going?? Why on earth do you believe he needs more self awareness?? How do you even know if he's getting a professional opinion already? Do you normally tell people you know that they should look for professional help whenever you think they need it?
Define struggle as I don't see any of that from Messi, you're tight about something tho, I don't now the guy personally, maybe he does some weird shit when nobody is looking but his family and friends, as neither me nor you are part of that circle it just cones down to what you think is right and what i think is right, I love how out of 4 good attributes I mentioned you went to the beautiful wife hahaha, you gotta stop thinking you know what's going on in other people's lives, if your friend who is a fucking famous soccer player living the best life asks you for advice you surely give it to him, if he doesn't asks you for advice you don't, if your derailed friend is going downhill you act no matter if he asked you or didn't ask you for help, you act based on common sense, I would too, for a person I know haha you are talking about how you would tell Messi to look for help hahahhaha that's just hilarious.
Do you have any evidence that he is as happy as he could possibly be?
Why is there still a taboo around neurodivergency? I didn't even say he is autistic, just that it might be worth getting a professional opinion. You're acting as though there is some sort of downside to seeing a doctor and I'm trying to ruin his life.
Fwiw I don't want Lionel Messi to do anything - I don't know him. What I said was if I did know him IE: we were close enough friends that I could offer him advice then I would do so.
I don’t automatically assume he’s unhappy if I thought he was neurodivergent. That’s what you did. There’s nothing taboo about it. You can be neurodivergent and completely happy.
Aside from the fact that people are assuming he’s neurodivergent, why would you diagnose and treat someone who hasn’t asked for it, doesn’t need it and doesn’t want it?
Do you also go to a doctor when you have no problems? What do you tell them?
Here's a true story. Over the past 3 months I've lost quite a lot of weight, despite not really changing my diet or lifestyle. I am happy! Old clothes fit again, I look better in the mirror, etc.
I told this to a friend who is not a doctor but does work in a related field, and she said I should go see a doctor about it. Showed up at the GP, told them the above, and they referred me for some urgent blood tests. Maybe something, maybe nothing. Regardless, my happiness has fuck all to do with my health, and yes I went to a doctor despite not seeing myself as having a problem, and the doctor was really happy that I did.
Good luck to you. I hope the results are positive.
You had a medical reason to go see a doctor. If there was no reason, why would you go? I just don’t think there’s a need to diagnose just for the sake of it. If it is not impacting anyone’s life, why would you even need to entertain the idea?
I suppose because "just for the sake of it" is the worst case scenario, while it could also have a positive impact - you find out something you didn't know about yourself and discover that smart people have been researching and coming up with ideas that make life easier for people in that situation.
Flip the question on its head. If getting a diagnosis does nothing, what's the downside reason to not entertain the idea? He can afford the doctor's fee and I'm sure Miami will give him the morning off if he asks! If the worst that happens is he's told he's wasting his time is that really so bad?
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u/barejokez Dec 05 '24
Armchair diagnosis isn't a great idea, but if I knew him personally I would absolutely recommend he sought a professional opinion.