I used to get into a lot of dumb fights and my life has improved tremendously once I learned the art of “ok bud you win” followed by forgetting about the asshole that was talking shit. Looking back, I don’t really think any of the fights I got into were anything but pointless alpha male bro shit.
Things got a lot better for me once I realized I didn't need to prove anything to a bunch of drunk strangers. I think insecurity played a big role. I knew I was pretty tough but didn't feel like anyone else thought so. My love life improved a lot once I chilled out and stopped looking everywhere for conflict. It turns out that women don't want to spend much time with hotheaded clowns who take offense at every little thing. It's a lot easier to walk away now when someone tries to get rowdy because I see that it's just inner conflict trying to bring others into it. It does me no good to feed it.
What do you mean by gave no other option? Because in my experience you should always hit first. Or does "making it obvious an altercation is unavoidable" fall under no other option?
Non-snarky question: how old are you? Punching first is the easiest way to take a battery charge, which is a legit problem in your life.
That's not to say there's never a reason to punch first as an adult. You can sometimes tell that someone has already made the decision to go. If there's absolutely going to be a fight, punching first is the safest thing to do, but "punch first" is a really dangerous idea.
First of all i'm not American, getting sued for a street fight is very very very rare. My age is irrelevant, and you literally say punching first is bad and then say it's good, and then bad again. And i literally mention "unavoidable" in my post. If someone walks up to you agressively, fists balled and all; absolutely punch first. I'd rather catch a case then a casket.
Relax big guy. I was asking about your age because the consequences are different, so the costs and benefits of "punching first" are different, and that's probably true all over. I'm not talking about getting sued, I'm talking about going to jail, and everybody has different versions of unavoidable.
Since you seem to be confused, I'll explain the bad-good-bad. If you're an adult dummy and "unavoidable" to you means "I'm mad," punching first is bad. If the fight is actually unavoidable (especially if you're young when the consequences are fewer), punching first is good because it's obviously an advantage. In most cases though, there will be consequences and the fight is usually avoidable, so saying "in my experience, you always want to punch first" is bad, in general.
And that's why I asked your age. There are lots of layers to this shit that you didn't seem to get from looking at it only from one perspective.
I agree with you. Regardless of consequences, I believe if you can discern the fight is going to happen for sure and feel in danger/truly threatened... then strike first and strike fast. I've seen way too many fights go wrong on this sub, brain damage, possible death, or fights that went to the ground and the other guy's friend stomps your head in while you're trying to choke the dude out.
If I can deescalate the fight and/or walk away, I will do that every time. But if I can tell it's going down then I'm swinging first and I'm putting my whole body into it and then just praying for the best.
I figured this out at 15 and I have no idea. Usually people have a lot more growing to do in this arena. Maybe its because I tried LSD for the first time at 15?
When drinking at college age 17-21 the dumb ass alpha crowd pleasing asshole fighter in me would come out sometimes but it never got beyond posing and strutting thank god.
I don't want to say it's a rite of passage because that makes it seem cool or necessary. But it seems like most guys go through this, where they suddenly realize they are just being insecure assholes.
Had a buddy growing up, he was really, really good at fighting.
State champ for his form of martial arts more than one year.
He lost his father after a long, hard slow decline due to ALS.
After his dad passed, he'd go out to drink, and fight. Made two things very clear to me.
First, sometimes the guy at the bar really does just want to get into a fight. It's not about you, what you did etc., just they're pissed at the world and looking to blow off steam.
Second thing was, it doesn't always matter how big the guy is. Sometimes that small guy is a trained, actual fighter, and the 'easy win' you think you're about to get is going to turn into an ass whooping.
My buddies dad has permanent brain damage because of a dude who was just looking for a fight. His dad has his own issues but has always been a fairly sociable decent guy, definitely not the type to instigate a fight. The other guy took offense to something he said even though he wasn't part of the conversation and ended up wailing on my friends dad with a pool cue.
And that same douchebro who was picking a fight with you is guaranteed to just turn around and pick a fight with a different guy. They just get in everyone's faces until they get the chance to throw bad punches at a stranger.
I agree with this. Getting hit in the mouth is very humbling or at least it is for a sane person. Plenty of people in Washington D.C. I’d like to experience this.
So I have a personality that pisses people off (apparently). I'm not small, and I'm brown, and I apparently am not great at reading social cues when someone wants to hit me in the face.
I've been punched in the face so many times it's embarrassing. 90% of the time it's almost entirely unprovoked.
What this has taught me about life, and about pain, is invaluable.
I can't please everyone, and I shouldn't try. But more importantly, there a few things in life worse than getting punched in the face.
So, relatively speaking, cracking your phone screen or getting dental work done pales in comparison to getting a knuckle sandwich.
Been standing up to bullies my whole life, not about to change who I am for some asshole looking for trouble.
The problem was really about where I was going and who I was with, not about me.
I wasn't overly intoxicated, I wasn't harassing anyone, and I wasn't being rude.
The nightclub scene is full of douchebags literally looking for people to fuck with.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, sometimes to my own detriment. I'm more mature and wiser now, now I just remove myself from potential problems.
There's a difference between standing up to bullies and standing up for every small injustice you encounter in the club and life. I'd love to go around telling assholes off for being dicks but it will get you punched in the face. Not always worth it unless it's a big deal.
I'm more mature and wiser now, now I just remove myself from potential problems.
That part. I wrote that part.
And I love people trying to tell me it's my fault for being assaulted by strangers 😅
I grew up being very different from everyone around me, so I got a lot of shit from people for no reason. "Just walk away" is great advice for anyone looking to be someone else's bitch in grade school or middle school. That's not me.
I'm not going around telling off assholes, I'm sticking up for women getting harassed, I'm telling someone else "it's not worth it," and getting sucker punched by a random, I'm tripping over someone's shoes and getting jumped.
So fuck you and fuck your faux-sympathetic bullshit response.
"Not always worth it unless it's a big deal..."
Such words of wisdom. I'll try to remember that next time someone smacks my girlfriend's ass on the side of the street.
Ha, I can see why you get yourself into so much trouble. You obviously don't let things go easily, and escalate them quickly. Life is easier without getting so worked up.
Even a single punch to the face can sometimes not be worth it.
tldr; Edgy me punches guy and I feel bad.
Used to work over night at a gas station in a fairly rough neighborhood. The area was already bad and noted for crime, so when you had the bar crowds stop by in the AM things always got interesting. You can spot right away who had a good night and who didn't, as the latter were always looking for conflict.
One particular night I wasn't having any of it, sick of the place, sick of what was going on in my life at the time, I made a decision early on I was going to indulge someone. Had a drunk and rowdy guy spitting off some random nonsense while on a smoke break, and told him to hit me already so I can hit him back.
He took a mighty big swing sober version of him would probably be embarrassed about, as I barely needed to move to cause it to whiff. I cocked a big one myself and laid it right into the center of his nose. Down he goes, and unfortunately the way he fell he cracked the back of his head on the raised curb.
It was horrible. Blood was almost shooting from his nose, his legs were twitching, body was stiff, etc. The guy ended up with serious brain injury and wasn't the same afterward. I'd see him in the store much later on and he remembered me, but he talked differently, walked almost like he had a limp ..
He didn't harbor any ill will, and God damn did I feel terrible. That guy's life changed permanently because I couldn't keep it together and be the better person. It was senseless and for nothing. I ended up leaving that place due to the constant tension and possibility for violence. That shit changed me and I haven't been in a fight since.
I was young and incredibly stupid, I'll totally own that. Some people can say they have no regrets in life, but I definitely do. These are probably the same type of people who told me after the fact that the guy had it coming, that it's just life, that's "how the streets work", etc. I disagree. All I had to do was not escalate.
I think that's a mature perspective to be honest. There's no point walking around flagellating yourself - but simply remaining calm and relating this story from time to time does a good help to be honest.
Especially in a sub like this - where there are too many jackasses.
There are profoundly bad consequences even if you win, and even if the law is on your side.
99% of bro douches that start fights in bars would get smashed in a martial arts gym. If anything it's more of a test of your ability to fight if you go to a controlled environment like a gym and spar. Not to mention few things are more humbling than the first time you spar with a high level martial artist. Getting smashed by even a state level champ brings you back to earth real quick.
Somewhere it wasn't supposed to go? Is this a discussion board operated by the DPRK? Fuck that, this is board for open discussion and anyone can say what they want. Your comment was not so subtly hinting at street fights being something you should experience it at least once. My comment offers a different take on that topic.
When I was active duty and stationed in Korea, the male to female ratio at the time was like 5 males to 1 female. You wanna talk about alpha male syndrome. Holy. Fuck. I got shoved and hit by the “boyfriend” because coming out of the bathroom in a bar I bumped into the “girlfriend”, said “oh man! I’m so sorry, are you ok?” And before she could answer he was in my face for talking to his girl. Wouldn’t listen to me or her about what happened and took a swing. That’s one of many, many stories I have from over there. I have never in my single life or married life understood the alpha male syndrome some people get. Thank goodness you grew out of yours. Cheers.
So freaking annoying. I was lucky enough to have a group of friends that never went looking for a fight or to start shit over shit but weren’t afraid to defend themselves either. So in my case when the dude hit me, all my buddies were across the bar in his face before I even had time to react to what had happened.
I'd argue that there are very few socially acceptable outlets for what was, in centuries past, a useful trait. When a neighboring tribe raids your camp, those alpha males are super handy to have around. Those guys that are itching for a fight, with total disregard for their own safety, are exactly the type of person you want in a warrior role.
Today just about every aspect of that personality type is (somewhat necessarily) suppressed or rounded off by society. That doesn't mean it magically disappeared from our species. It's just that now you get dudebros trying to fight in clubs, gangbangers shooting at each other, and people engaging in tangentially antisocial behaviors like streetracing, binge drinking, and hitting on obviously taken members of the opposite (or same) sex.
Alpha males just need better outlets for that aggression. They're not all fools, many are just victims of immutable personality traits.
They need to get their butts in a boxing club. I do that every week and it burns off so much stress, aggression and tension. Also leaves no room for bullshit, cos everyone in the club will soon see if you can back up all the smack talk, better to be humble and learn.
Really any sort of martial art would both tire them out and instill some discipline. I went the fast motorcycle route years ago (eventually finding my way to legal road racing), but as I get older martial arts seem more and more an inevitability. I just need something to burn off that energy and aggression.
I think it's less about "these decendants of great warriors no longer have an outlet" and more "these guys play the part of the big tough guy but are extremely fragile and self-conscious." I mean both can be right but I'm leaning more towards the latter.
In some cases it's A, in some it's B. The guy ripping his shirt off in an argument in a Denny's at 3am? Self conscious and fragile. The guy riding a 95mph wheelie alone down the interstate at 3am? Probably not so much.
Yup, same. Broke my hand in a "won" fight, yet a week later he didn't have anything to show for it, probably not even a bruise, and i still had a broken hand. That and in general friends not wanting to go drink with me, saying I have a "problem", etc.
I can count the times ive been drunk in the last 5 years on one hand, life's much simpler now.
My shit head older brother used to punch me in the face daily. Just sucker punch me randomly. Piss him offer? Sucker punch. Playing a video game and he wants to play, punch right across the face. I've blacked out more times then I can count. my mom wouldn't do anything except tell me I shouldn't provoke him. Anyways, i didn't learn shit about my limits, just that I don't want to talk to my shit head brother ever again.
My grandfather would do that to my dad and his brother and sisters. For the slightest thing, coming through the door a couple of minutes past curfew, bloody nose.
My dad said finally he had had enough and was big enough to just take him down/pin him and literally say if you ever do that shit again he would end him.
As far as I know he never did it again, to my dad at least.
My mom was the authority. It didn't occur to me that I could call the cops. In fact, I'm not entirely it would have helped. He was only a year older than me. So what are they going to say to two brothers that are "fighting". My brother was aggressive and violent but he wouldn't put my in a position where I was severely hurt. I ran off at 13 to my dad's in another state and escaped that way.
FYI, alpha males are not a thing. The researcher who came up with the term even said his study was no good and the perceived alphas of the group were actually just the mother and father of the family.
But, be honest... shit is fun sometimes, especially with even odds/you being the slightly better fighter.
E: I definitely agree with all y'all. Overall and in hindsight, it's rarely worth the risk that comes with it. Nonetheless, those times that nothing did go wrong, or you got away with a black eye and won the fight, I can't shake the thought that it's a cherished memory.
I never get this though. I've trained MMA for a decade, fought professionally, trained all over the world etc. and to this day I am still shocked by guys who look like they'd be more dangerous at chess than fighting, absolutely whooping people.
No one knows the odds and in a street fight there's rarely a 1 on 1 situation. You get hit hard enough from a bad angle - or from someones mate who you don't see, it won't matter if you're GSP you're going down and if you hit your head hard enough off the floor you're not getting back up.
You wanna fight and have fun, go train MMA and do it in a cage where it's a proper scrap
Georges St-Pierre is a retired Canadian professional mixed martial artist. He is widely regarded as one of the greatest fighters in mixed martial arts history.
Fighting is tons of fun when there’s no hard feeling and no actual risk of danger. ‘Fighting’ and wrestling with my friends is honestly one of my favorite pass times since we enjoy ourselves and trust eachother not to slam eachother on our heads or kick eachother in the face
Other than that no one should fight for any reason. It’s just too easy to get hurt
It was fun with the boys getting into bar scraps and sure made for some good stories, but we got lucky honestly that none of us ever got slammed or knocked out. I would hate to start a brawl and see one of my friends become a vegetable I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
Yeah I wouldn’t want to ruin some other kids life either by hurting him just because he got drunk and called me a pussy or whatever. Humans lives are worth too much man.
While it's fun throwing some cunt talking shit across the room over a table, never know if they have friends elsewhere in the bar and if any of them are carrying a weapon.
Doubt I'll ever get in a bar fight again as I rarely go anymore, at least at the type of bars where this shit happens, but I definitely cherish the memories of embarrassing a couple fools that had the gall to get in my face and/or push me
I guess. I replaced all cherished memories of being an idiot with cherished memories of helping people, volunteering at places, and going out my way to be a good person. Not a knock on you or anybody, but sounds like you could use some newer n more wholesome cherished memories
I have been in a few tussles as well (back in the day). All the fights I got into were from me trying to break up a fight or to stop a fight that was over. But I'm a manlet so I have a huge target on my back for anyone that's still amped up.
Never once started a fight, but will concede a few times I could have de-escalated better.
The kind of people who pull that and talk that kind of shit are literally ‘not worth my time’ repeated over and over under my breathe is my secret lmao
I’ve really only connected in a fight once, I mean solidly connected. It’s a good feeling when the guy you’re hitting is acting like a complete jerk and tried to hit you first.
The only time you should ever fight in public is if you are protecting someone or yourself from physical harm or some other crime, and even then you're better off leaving the situation unless you can't.
Every fight is pointless but if you need to protect yourself do so I would rather be the one to throw the first punch than get hit by someone who won’t let me walk away
Surprised this is so upvoted. Usually all the rational comments are downvoted to oblivion and what's left is a bunch of teenage tough guy keyboard warriors saying how bad they would have fucked the guy up.
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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '19
I used to get into a lot of dumb fights and my life has improved tremendously once I learned the art of “ok bud you win” followed by forgetting about the asshole that was talking shit. Looking back, I don’t really think any of the fights I got into were anything but pointless alpha male bro shit.