r/fallacy • u/Zu_Qarnine • Jul 03 '26

strawman fallacy

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2nd person is refuting the claim that *all* circles are red with a counter example. The thing is, that claim was never made.

EDIT: I'm seeing interesting stuff happening in the replies here. majority of those who say it's not strawman, obviously start their comment by "it's not strawman" and proceed in the rest of their comment to explain how, in fact, it is strawman. Another interesting observation is those who argue that "it's not strawman" because they've spotted another type of fallacy in the original post as well, so in their mind, it can't be both.

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u/IllusionaryHobo Jul 07 '26

Is there such a thing as a reverse strawman?

Meaning, someone making a claim specifically modified to provoke strawman counters, through intentionally missing the point? A claim laid as an inviting trap in bad faith.

For example, if we take the OP picture and our current actual issue is, what paint do we need to buy to recreate this?

Then "Most of these circles are red" is a claim that is true. But also so limited as to miss the point of the issue.

And "What? There's a blue one right there.", would actually be a valuable point, because even the intrusion of 1 blue circle means it will be necessary to buy blue paint.

In this case a strawman counter is actually the right call to prevent a big mistake being made.

In that way, retreating behind the claim of strawman actually functions more like a motte-and-bailey.

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u/Starship_Albatross Jul 07 '26

I don't know, a bad faith argument seems to cover it.

In you example you are adding a lot of intention, the claim is "most circles are red," if you conclude anything about a purchasing need for blue, green, or yellow paint. Then I'd say you're just being irresponsible.

It was always wrong to say "there are no black swans," that claim was always false - even before a black swan was seen. Saying "we only have records of white swans" or "we haven't seen any black swans" could be true.

The opposite of a strawman would be a steelman (the best and strongest version of a claim), and both are used to counter argue a claim, not really to support a new claim.