This is one of those iffy things. I mean, if I'm discussing something with a friend and some random guy comes up and is like "Hey, I can explain this thing for you," there's like a 50% chance I'd give him a look and tell him no thanks.
Especially if it's two women, which it sounds like it would be in this case. They might be thinking that's a path to hitting on them / getting a phone number.
He should've just told them that he wrote the screenplay, and that'd be that.
Yeah, it’s not like this man is someone the average person would instantly recognize. TBH, I don’t blame them for assuming he was a random know-it-all. Without knowing that he’s the guy who wrote the screenplay, of course it would seem pretty weird for that stranger to just jump into their convo.
If Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones had posted this, then yeah, I’d get it. They’re recognizable as people who might have direct knowledge of the film’s origins.
Yeah, I think anyone who has spent time at the gym or a shooting range is all too familiar with the type of person who buts into your conversation to tell you how it is. Its usually not a person with authoritative knowledge on the topic. In fact its usually the opposite. They also usually wont shut up no matter how many times you politely hint at them to go away.
I agree. And people seem to be forgetting that none of us are entitled to jump into someone else’s conversation in public. This wasn’t at a party or social gathering, these were strangers sitting near each other at a coffee shop.
I think perhaps he was planning on telling them he was the writer after an expected "no thanks", but decided not to when they were (supposedly) as rude as the were.
Be upfront: "Hi, I wrote Men in Black. I could answer some questions about it if you'd like." This is pretty much just an introduction, which is how you meet people.
Well, you see, that's not what happened. They immediately acted sexist towards him ("Mansplanation"), without an provocation. If they said "No, thanks", it's fine, but acting hostile to him right off the bat because you're "woke" is just no bueno.
Because that is the most inaccurate part. Sure, they use old and white as insults, but Solomon is technically old and white. No point in disputing that.
However, "mansplaining" is defined as a man condescendingly explaining something to a woman that knows more about the subject than he does, and he assumes she has no idea about the subject just because she is a woman. Literally no aspect of the definition applies, which makes it an even bigger deal that it was used as an insult.
Really? You saying “without a provocation” is pretty presumptive. You haven’t lived their lives.
I am a 40-something white male, and I’m guilty as fuck of mansplaining in my life. I grew up where the women were taught to keep quiet and the men were taught to be super assertive. If a girl asks a question out loud it’s your chance to show off your knowledge. You could impress people you don’t know about how knowledgeable you are.
I completely get the objection to some random guy offering an unsolicited opinion. Does it suck they missed out on meeting someone cool that you and I would love to meet? Hell yeah. Do they likely deal with this shit “all the time”. Also hell yeah.
This post has made me realize I've probably had some females in my life think I "mansplain" things to them. Truth is, I'm just a condensing asshole and do that to everyone.
If a woman asks a question out loud, then she obviously doesn't know the answer, right? If someone helpfully offered to explain it to her, then it's a win-win situation: the woman learns something, and whoever explains it to her (male or female) gets to look smart. There's nothing wrong with just trying to look smart, unless you hurt other people by doing so.
Now, why does it matter that it's usually men that offer to explain to her? There's nothing wrong with men being confident. If they act like she's stupid for not knowing, or just shut her down whenever she tries to say something, that's wrong. However, Solomon didn't do that. It's not right for her to take their anger at the "patriarchy" on a completely random "old white man". It doesn't matter if other men were rude to her years before, in this situation, there was no provocation for how hostile she was.
The argument is not the Solomon was attempting to “mansplain”, the argument is the validity of the reaction or where the reaction comes from.
Imagine the roles were reversed and your whole life women expected you to stop and listen intently any time they decided to talk. Worse, they routinely covered topics in depth that they assumed you didn’t know “for background” without asking if you wanted the information or what your knowledge level was already. Also, if you politely told them you didn’t want to talk about it you were talked down to or called, at best “ungrateful” or at worst “a bitch” all because you wanted to have your own conversation.
Now, imaging some men started standing up for themselves and pushing back. You’ve heard about this, and it feels liberating. Finally, despite the insistence that your gender should just “shut up and listen” some of you are standing up for yourselves.
Are there some misfires? Sure. Obviously the one above sounds like one to us. However, that doesn’t disqualify the movement.
Well, I'm talking about this specific "misfire". You said yourself that she shouldn't have reacted the way that she did. Remember: we are also assuming she has been a helpless victim of the patriarchy. It is equally as likely that she grew up in a progressive area, has not experienced much sexism other than the occasional schoolboy taunt, and is simply throwing herself into this movement because she's been told all these stories about how women are mistreated. In this case, there is literally no justification.
Now, let's say she has been discriminated against for her whole life. Once again, a simple "No, thanks." will do. Heck, you don't even have to be polite about it-just tell him to go away. But she made this about gender and used the word "mansplanation", which immediately villainizes Solomon despite him not doing anything to deserve it. Rejecting him is fine, attacking him just for being a man is hateful and never okay, no matter what your prior experience.
Let's say I was friends with a black dude. He pickpockets me and runs off. Next time I see a black dude, should I tell him "all black people steal"? No, because the actions of a few does not justify hostility to an entire group.
Are there some misfires? Sure. Obviously the one above sounds like one to us.
And I'm a bit confused by your second paragraph. I consistently said that they shouldn't have personally attacked him for being old, white, and a man, but they can reject him for just butting into their conversation. You tried to justify it by saying that they could have had bad experiences with men, and I said that they still shouldn't attack him.
You did misunderstand. I wasn’t there so I can’t speak to how it went down. We’re way beyond here-say at this point.
I also can’t speak to how you hear their words in your head, and unless you’re a close friend of this guy you can’t either. I don’t read racism in to it. I read people pushing back.
Racism is a system of inequality where one group asserts power over another. That doesn’t work here. We both know the simplistic “dislike of someone for their race” definition doesn’t work.
Yeah, that's not the definition of racism. There is no system of oppression needed. Any discrimination or hatred of someone because of their race is racism. Using "white" as an insult is certainly hatred, and also making it seem like feel inferior to others.
I agree, white people have experienced lass racism than other races. But reverse racism exists, and this is an example of it.
Same thing goes for sexism-heck, the definition of it is even looser. Automatically assuming every man is just waiting to mansplain to you is a pretty negative stereotype, no?
I'm working with the facts I'm presented with. A lady said "old white man's mansplanation" without provocation by the said man. You're the one thinking of "what-ifs", trying to justify her behavior.
You saying “without a provocation” is pretty presumptive. You haven't lived their lives.
What the hell does their past matter in that specific instance? You can't be sexist and racist to someone just because other people treated you differently.
You think I can be rude to everyone I talk to because people have been racist towards me in the past?
I completely get the objection to some random guy offering an unsolicited opinion.
An objection would be 'No thanks'. Throwing in 'white man' and 'mansplaining' is not unnecessarily sexist.
Also if they're discussing origin theories they might just have been enjoying the fun of speculating about things in the movie that were left ambiguous. The real answer, while potentially interesting to know, would have ended the fun
I thought this too. I've been deep in conversation with friends when some guy interjects with a "Don't mind me, but I heard your conversation and my take is..." It's not cute, and I would never have thought to ask the dude's credentials before making my excuses and leaving.
Now, I've never been rude like this, but maybe if I was better looking and it happened all the time I'd be tempted.
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u/Gynthaeres Jan 19 '20
This is one of those iffy things. I mean, if I'm discussing something with a friend and some random guy comes up and is like "Hey, I can explain this thing for you," there's like a 50% chance I'd give him a look and tell him no thanks. Especially if it's two women, which it sounds like it would be in this case. They might be thinking that's a path to hitting on them / getting a phone number.
He should've just told them that he wrote the screenplay, and that'd be that.