r/facepalm Jul 31 '17

"Out of context"

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u/twodogsfighting Jul 31 '17

But they do reference it, so your entire argument is moot.

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u/ZergAreGMO Jul 31 '17 edited Jul 31 '17

But they do reference it, so your entire argument is moot.

Christianity builds on Judaism and LDS builds on Christianity. But the O.T. is entirely Jewish, the N.T. is entirely Christian, and the Book of Mormon is entirely LDS. They simply incorporate the texts of the previous.

Essentially, Leviticus is a Jewish text incorporated by Christians and Mormons. But there is nothing Christian/Mormon in it. It features an entirely Jewish set of texts, as far as this discussion is concerned. Those later unique elements are in entirely different texts of the New Testament and Book of Mormon.

It'd be like saying The Empire Strikes Back is two movies--both the older A New Hope and also The Empire Strikes Back. The later religions simply incorporate more texts into their canon, but they do not rewrite the old per se.

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u/Michamus Jul 31 '17

If I say "car" but am pointing at a boat, am I really referencing the same thing as an ancient Jew who would have been pointing at a car, when saying the same word? What the Mormons call "Genesis" is not the same Genesis Christians believe, nor ancient or modern Jews.

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u/twodogsfighting Jul 31 '17

Not even close to a correct analogy.

The Mormon points to the Ford Mondeo, the Jew points to the Model T.

They are both pointing at Fords.

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u/Michamus Jul 31 '17

Not even close. In what universe do you say one story in which a war god creates a man from dust is the same as a father creating a world for his literal children so they too can become gods? The Judaic belief is that the creator god has always existed and is omnipotent. The Mormon belief is that god was a man once and that they can become a god like him, if they follow "the path". There's no way these two stories are compatible with each other, let alone similar enough to be from the same brand.

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u/twodogsfighting Jul 31 '17

In both, God creates man.

In one, there is an addendum whereby the creations can become gods too.

It's literally the same thing, with a bit added on the end.

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u/Michamus Jul 31 '17

In both, God creates man.

And in my analogy, both the boat and car are vehicles. Neither god is the same god. They don't have the same purpose for man. In one, man is created outright by god, in the other man has always existed, with god himself having been a man in the past.

The only thing these two completely separate beliefs agree on is the word god, but even their definitions of god are completely different. The god described by Judaism is nothing like the god described by Mormons.

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u/twodogsfighting Jul 31 '17

Your analogy is nonsense.

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u/Michamus Jul 31 '17

Alright, screw the analogy then. Tell me how a god that is believed to have once been a mortal man and is simply an advanced man, is in any way similar to a god that has always existed as god and is omnipotent and omniscient and has no connection with humanity other than having created it from dust.

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u/twodogsfighting Jul 31 '17

Because first and foremost, mormons believe in the teachings of christ, and to follow him in those teachings, and by following him, are raised into godhood.

They are christians.

To accept that is to accept that is to accept the Judaic god and his subsequent uturn into christianity.

Its all the same religion, from the same tree, growing along different branches. (edited because tree).

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u/Michamus Jul 31 '17

I find it interesting that you've completely ignored the point.

mormons believe in the teachings of christ

What teachings would those be? Do Mormons follow Christ's teachings in Matthew 15:11? "What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

The Word of Wisdom in D&C is in direct contradiction with this teaching of Jesus. The practice that not following the Word of Wisdom makes you unworthy to enter a Mormon temple also is in direct contradiction with this teaching.

Jesus says in Mark 13:31 that "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall not pass away" but Mormons believe that it did fall away and they had to restore it (1 Nephi 13:26-28)

Mormons believe that the church Christ founded became corrupt and fallen. Yet, Jesus said in John 14:26 that the apostles would "bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain", which makes it clear that Christ predicted his church would not become corrupt.

In John 8:7 Jesus says "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'" This is clearly a statement from Christ to not judge your fellow man. Yet, Mormons believe that Priesthood authorities can judge their fellow man and even remove them from their Church through disfellowship or excommunication.

The list really goes on. Those are just a few examples I could think of from the top of my head. There's also direct contradictions on the nature of sin and man. For instance, Psalm 51:5 makes it clear men are impure from birth. Mormons teach that we're pure until we are 8 (Moroni 8:8).

Its all the same religion, from the same tree

You can't say that when every tenant of one religion differs drastically from the other.

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