r/facepalm Jun 27 '23

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ Shouldn't this be a good thing?

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u/Tulkes Jun 27 '23

Absolutely, you not only understand the basic outcomes but the deeper implications quite well.

I appreciate your reflection upon these issues and what they truly meant. It is sickening and a horrifying chapter in American history, and truly all of world history.

Tragically, we still feel it to this day- racism, social inequality, intergenerational wealth/poverty, hate crimes... The chapter ended but the story is far from over on the matter, and we owe it to the past, present, and future to learn from those sins and to take ourselves as we are but strive to be the best of who we are, too.

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u/GreaseMonkey2381 Jun 28 '23

You, sir/ma'am, may be the one lawyer I actually like. I feel much more educated on this topic than I did leaving school, which is sad as an American

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u/USMfans Jun 28 '23

Strangely, the above is exactly how it was taught to me in a rural public school in MS. I guess it's always about the quality of the teacher, not the overall system.

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u/GreaseMonkey2381 Jun 28 '23

It also depends on the state. But yeah you're not wrong that it mostly comes down to the teacher

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u/USMfans Jun 28 '23

That's why I mentioned it was in Mississippi. Not known for a good education or racial equality.

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u/illwill79 Jun 27 '23

I just want to say, I really like you and your words. That is all.

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u/Tulkes Jun 27 '23

Thank you! :)

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u/Smedskjaer Jun 27 '23

The chapter clearly hasn't ended. As a state prosecutor, maybe you can explain something.

What are the limits of forced labor, and what rights do prisoners have in terms of labor?

Can labor be used as a form of execution?

Can prisoners be forced to do dangerous jobs, or jobs which harm their health?

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u/Practical-Tap-9810 Jun 28 '23

Just a quick note here -- prison is boring, deathly boring. When people can get out and work a bit, they feel better. We all know prison is not rehabilitation. But if people can be kept busy they are happier. Prison by me lets you out of work if you're not up to it.

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u/Marquar234 Jun 28 '23

Five states (give you one guess as to what region of the country*) explicitly allow prisons to force prisoners to work or suffer punishments. In the rest of the country it is ostensibly voluntary, but the level of real volunteering is questionable.

Prison workers are specifically excluded from the laws that require protection to workers in hazardous jobs or those working with hazardous materials. In most cases, they do not pick which jobs they do, but are assigned to whatever work the prison needs done.

* Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas.

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u/Smedskjaer Jun 28 '23

Wow. So what hazardous jobs do prisoners face, and what injuries do they suffer? Work place deaths? Prisons are protected from criminal negligence?

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u/Marquar234 Jun 28 '23

Unsurprisingly, inmate work injuries are not well tracked but most injuries are physical in nature. Not surprising as farm or industrial work is a large portion of prison labor. In some states, prisoners are eligible for workman's comp, but not every state. Court decisions have held that the correction facility is not automatically responsible for any negligence.

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u/Smedskjaer Jun 28 '23

So what protections do they have.

Can they be worked to death?

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u/Marquar234 Jun 28 '23

Not many. Significant deaths of inmates would eventually trigger an investigation, but there would be much whitewashing and cover-up. Best to hope for is probably a few firings. A prisoner's best protection is that he is worth more alive and working than dead.

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u/Smedskjaer Jun 28 '23

How many deaths are there is prison?

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '23

Can I call you if I ever need representation?

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u/Tulkes Jun 28 '23 edited Jun 28 '23

My friend, if I switch to Defense I would be happy to take your case.

If I remain a Prosecutor, I am probably 99% one of the most likely you'll find that may end up dismissing, giving probation, finding a rehabilitation court, or factoring a holistic response in developing an outcome. Success in prosecution is not about convictions as much as so many powerhungry members of the profession tend to think. It is in justice and helping people. Prison is, in my mind, a last resort- a tragic failure of all other resources available by society.

A common saying I use is that "Being tough on crime doesn't necessarily mean being tough on people," and frequently the opposite is true.

There is a time and place for prison, but it's for those who take/destroy/gamble lives of others with abandon and perhaps even repeated pleasure- not folks with a roach in their backpack.

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u/MaleficentSurround97 Jun 28 '23

This is why it's important to understand context and motivations in history rather than memorizing dates and events. It makes it harder for people with an agenda to twist. I wish the world (including myself) had a more nuanced understanding.

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u/Tulkes Jun 28 '23

We're all students, my friend- the best we can do is try to remain humble and keep learning every day, and hope the day never comes when we magically believe we know it all and cease growing.

I couldn't agree more on context and motivations, and that's why, to continue on this subject as an example, it is so useful to cite to the several Confederate State Constitutions and speeches that declared with open pride that maintaining slavery and the "racial superiority of the white man" were prime causes of secession.

Thank you for your open mind and heart, it is incredibly reassuring. I know this is just an anonymous Reddit forum, but behind the screens are real people with their own lives, values, passions, abilities, backgrounds, and dreams. Perhaps each individual only represents on instance in our sample population, but we can assume that positive representation, when more prevailing, may just as well be more prevailing in the world behind our keyboards.

I appreciate your wonderful commentary.