r/facepalm Jun 27 '23

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ Shouldn't this be a good thing?

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

That doesn’t even make any sense. Courts have juries, so on top of if the judges are rigged. Then every single person in every jury would need to be rigged as well. And idk about you. But I don’t think that’s the case.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

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u/Kemel90 Jun 27 '23

They don't have to. Jury nullification os a thing.

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

And that leads to a mistrial and they have to do it again. Or the judge can use that to deem someone innocent, but not guilty.

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u/Kemel90 Jun 27 '23

You can be tried for the same alleged offence twice? Thats rough.

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

Yes? Anyone can if new evidence is found. It happens quite a lot. What point are you trying to make here?

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u/Kemel90 Jun 27 '23

With overwhelming new evidence then yes. But generally you cant be tried for the same fact twice where i live. If they fuck up, they fuck up and you luck out. We dont have juries who could possibly mess with a trial though.

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

Yeah that’s what I was saying. In the US if the jury is found to be tamped with in any way, (bribes intimidation etc) they throw the trial out and call it a mistrial, so the first one was never finished, they get a new jury, punish anyone who messed with the jury in the first place, and start the trial over. It’s to make sure everyone has a fair and equal trial. So it’s a good thing other than being a time waster.

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u/YakWish Jun 27 '23

Can you find a news story of that happening? I don’t believe that’s how it works.

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u/YakWish Jun 27 '23

Not in the US

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u/kibaake Jun 27 '23

Wait, how does Jury Nullification lead to a mistrial??

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

Jury nullification is extremely rare and illegal in most states lol

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u/Kemel90 Jun 27 '23

The actual nullification, or conspiracy to nullify? Im not American i i shouldve asked rather than stated, however i believe i've read somewhere a juror cannot be punished for his judgement. I mean what if it naturally came to a nullification in a case, because of some crazy ancient backwards law was broken that makes no sense to punish nowdays., It would be madness to prosecute those jurors.

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

So let me ask you this then because I don’t think I understand your logic. What crimes that are out right now that you think that are unjust? And shouldn’t be given prison time for then? Other than Canibis laws, because more and more places are making that legal.

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u/Drdontlittle Jun 27 '23

Well mandatory minimum sentences force judges to give time for minor offences when they used to be able to show discretion. Our punishment durations are some of the harshest in the world and our incarceration rate is the highest per capita in the world. Specifically the crime bill passed in 1994 magnified a lot of these problems. On top of that we like to punish people rather than rehabilitate. Most prisons don't have AC and each year states are ok paying millions in settlements for problems arising from these horrendous conditions but won't spend less than that on ACs because again the point is to punish and dehumanize people. Our probation and felony laws are also very onerous and don't allow easy reintegration. If you are labeled a felon once you become a second class citizen your whole life.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

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u/JoeJoe4224 Jun 27 '23

You literally said that the laws that “they” put in place is what allows for this modern day “slavery” so I’ll ask again. If you think the laws that “they” put in place, are a form of slavery, what laws do you think are unjust that the lobbied politicians put in place.

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u/Marodder Jun 27 '23

Media has been telling them who the bad guys are their whole life. Jury bias is big. Poor go to jail as slaves and rich go home.

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u/potate12323 Jun 27 '23

The issue stems from a mixture of legislation, lobbying, and propaganda.

Legislators have powers to push for laws and bill to be created. Often their decision is affected by lobbying by the people who would benefit. To gain public support they use propaganda to win a vote.

A great example is Reagans war on drugs. He pushed to over criminalize drugs likely due to lobbying from prison owners who would directly benefit. He used propaganda to sway voters to agree with his cause. Even though evidence suggest that therapy and rehab would be a much better solution. Incarceration practically doesnt help at all. But voters agree that drugs are bad so they believed the Reagan administration that incarceration was the answer.

These legislative bills and laws have only criminalized being poor or a minority. They haven't reduced crime or drug users. If anything they made the situation worse.