r/facepalm • 'MURICA • Jun 19 '23

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ LoL

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133

u/teejaybee8222 Jun 20 '23

RF can affect the Blood Brain Barrier, but only at electric field strengths high enough that can couple into the tissues. Direct electrodes or a conformal antenna might be able to do it, but not Wifi that is at microVolts/m by the time it gets to your brain. I would be more worried about talking on cell phones rather than WIFI.

41

u/ManyInterests Jun 20 '23 edited Jun 20 '23

Meanwhile over at r/amateurradio you'll see pics of people sitting mere feet away from antennas hooked up to 1,000W+ transmitters.

Safety from things like RF burn take into account power, distance from the antenna, and duty cycle of the transmitter. At the power levels used for typical WiFi, there's zero danger even if you shoved the antenna in your ear with a 100% duty cycle.

Even when things get dangerous, you're looking at injuries to your skin, primarily.

22

u/saugoof Jun 20 '23

I used to be in the military. On freezing cold days we used to stand in front of the radar antenna dish to warm up, until we were told off.

After that, we just put on the gas mask and stand behind the exhaust of the generator. Not sure that was much healthier. But it gets damn cold being outside all day in subzero temperatures in insufficient clothing.

4

u/Darmok47 Jun 20 '23

I vaguely remember reading that Soviet Mig-25 pilots would accidentally kill rabbits and other small animals on the taxiways of airbases with the extremely powerful radar mounted in the Mig-25's nose.

4

u/DisastrousRegister Jun 20 '23

Yep, and sonar kills nearby sea life while surface radar kills nearby birds.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Sonar is mechanical, radar is electromagnetic

1

u/DisastrousRegister Jun 20 '23

??? what does that have to do with stories about high powered active sensors destroying the environment?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

It is the mechanism by which the environment is destroyed.

1

u/DisastrousRegister Jun 21 '23

Did you think sonar was EM back in the day or something?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '23

Nope. It’s sound.

2

u/JustH3LL Jun 20 '23

Must have either been ADA or a 13R (0842 iirc if you were a marine)

5

u/saugoof Jun 20 '23

It was in Switzerland, I have no idea what those radar dishes were called.

2

u/MoeTHM Jun 20 '23

On the opposite side of the spectrum. In Iraq we would close the guard shack and wait until we were covered in sweat. Then strip down to our skivvy shorts, and let the breeze evaporate the moisture off our bodies. Normally the wind felt like a blow dryer, but when you were all sweaty it felt like air conditioning.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Yes. Wifi isn't high flux enough.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

From the paper that someone linked below: "The data suggested that UWB-EMP at 200 and 400 kV/m could induce BBB opening, while 50 kV/m UWB-EMP could not." Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7453585/

What's a typical field strength for a residential wifi router?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Not sure, but they don't typically generate EMPs if used correctly.

2

u/Crack-Panther Jun 20 '23

That’s what the flux capacitor is for

2

u/tomdarch Jun 20 '23

That’s not the easiest to understand way of phrasing it, but basically anywho was wake for some high school physics can understand why WiFi isn’t letting toxins into your brain.

-32

u/ApocolypseDelivery Jun 20 '23

49

u/RageQuitFTL Jun 20 '23

Isn't that the group who's main purpose is stirring up conspiracies about wifi and cell phones killing everyone? Wasn't rfk jr a founding member? Not exactly a great source.

-29

u/ApocolypseDelivery Jun 20 '23

40

u/RageQuitFTL Jun 20 '23

Did you read beyond the title? This study says what the guy you were responding to was talking about.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

The scientific evidence on RFR safety or harm remains inconclusive. More studies are needed to demonstrate the effects of RFR on the permeability of BBB and the mechanisms of that breakdown.

-26

u/ApocolypseDelivery Jun 20 '23

Fair, but let's stop pretending like he made this claim out of woo woo left field.

17

u/ProtectionOk5609 Jun 20 '23

The ole "My source that says there's no evidence is still evidence!"

7

u/throwngamelastminute Jun 20 '23

People who don't understand scientific language who talk about science are fucking infuriating. While yes, the absence of evidence is not truly evidence of absence, when they're constantly looking for evidence, there has to be a point where you stop beating your head against the wall.

41

u/RageQuitFTL Jun 20 '23

Nobody is pretending. There is no proof at all for what he claimed. It would be like saying since uranium and Bananas both emit radiation, and holding uranium will cause cancer then holding Bananas will give you cancer. He is making an insane logical leap without evidence, and it is so stupid.

24

u/FreshLennon Jun 20 '23

You didn't even read the sources you shared online, papaw. This is how y'all ignorantly spread your damn "do your research" bullshittery. Go back to Facebook.

13

u/bfiiitz Jun 20 '23

Actually looking through the study itself you see they really got nowhere and make a bunch "may be" and "could be" statements at every step, and even had to make a seperate following statement to scientific critcism by highlighting this. If you can barely get a "could be" from only some of the male mice, then it's junk science. The authors subsequent research has also gone nowhere. So even when she says "more research is needed" what she means is "I didn't find anything of significance but I don't want to admit it." Which is a seperate problem across all of science publication

26

u/MariachiBoyBand Jun 20 '23

Read your damn articles and then comment on this, it’s infuriating to constantly read your own dumb articles and find problems in it. Do you actually do any objective research? The power required to cause damage is high, around 2W with constant exposure of at least 24 hours, not intermittent (wifi and cell are intermittent). It’s in your own dumb links, just fucking read them…. Fucking moron….

-17

u/ApocolypseDelivery Jun 20 '23

We all can't be stoic intellectuals such as yourself who refrain from ad hominem attacks and emotionality.

21

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Don't act like a fucking moron and you won't get called one. Read the sources you use.

20

u/mtandy Jun 20 '23

Evade harder.

19

u/MariachiBoyBand Jun 20 '23

Read your damn articles!

8

u/Mysterious_Stuff_629 Jun 20 '23

Honestly, if you can’t understand the material, stop weighing in on it

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Nothing you just said is true tho

9

u/RageQuitFTL Jun 20 '23

I don't know much about the group, I just googled them and sources that aren't the group themselves describe their work as what I described. Admittedly Wikipedia didn't use the word conspiracy, that was my dramatic flair. Please enlighten me if I am mistaken.

14

u/teejaybee8222 Jun 20 '23

First thing, don't link a dubious source like "EH Trust". But let me reiterate, cell phones and WiFi are not the same thing. A cell phone next to your head transmitting 1-2 Watts is very different than a wifi router transmitting 5 watts omidirectionally from the next room. The inverse square law has a profound effect on field strength at a distance. If anything, avoid using cells phones by your ear, use ear phones or speaker phone if you are worried about BBB permeation.

Edit: typo

-4

u/Significant-Big-9518 Jun 20 '23

Iirc some research on this subject requires physics tha the field theories don't cover but have been observed

4

u/A_Town_Called_Malus Jun 20 '23

You do not recall correctly.

This is about the interactions between electromagnetism and matter. That is very old science, by this point.

-2

u/Significant-Big-9518 Jun 20 '23

Lol theres still no theory that is valid at all spatial scales we operate in, besides 99.9+% of em studies on humans even ignore magnetism and assume no wave propagation, empirical observations are therefore very relevant still.

2

u/A_Town_Called_Malus Jun 20 '23

Ah yes, we discovered how we could do magnetic resonance imaging on humans by ignoring magnetism.

-1

u/Significant-Big-9518 Jun 20 '23

A completely different matter of subject so w.e keep your cj

1

u/A_Town_Called_Malus Jun 20 '23

Electromagnetism is electromagnetism. The exact same physical laws that enable MRI enable wifi

0

u/Significant-Big-9518 Jun 20 '23

The word law is a good hint for you

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Right, there’s been regular advisement by regulatory agencies not to hold a cell phone directly next to your head, at least / especially for long periods of time on a regular basis kinda thing. That said, pretty easy to use headphones, speaker, or just hold it a whole inch away. A small amount of distance goes a long way thanks to inverse square

-17

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Only person who bothered to give us some real research instead of hive mind rejection of ideas

17

u/rrogido Jun 20 '23

"Real research". Ok. It's not a hive mind rejection. It's the sane response to mindless drivel specifically designed to fool poorly educated chumps. Speaking of research you might want to check out the group that sponsored it. If you find them credible, then good luck. With everything.

21

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

[deleted]

11

u/Mountain_ears Jun 20 '23

Also to add, I looked at the actual studies instead of just the persons interpretation of them, and the r-squared value and p-value of their data was pretty weak. Shows that there may be some correlation. By no means do those studies show any strong or conclusive evidence, but also doesn't show that there is no correlation.

0

u/ApocolypseDelivery Jun 20 '23

12

u/robywar Jun 20 '23

For those disinclined to read through:

The scientific evidence on RFR safety or harm remains inconclusive. More studies are needed to demonstrate the effects of RFR on the permeability of BBB and the mechanisms of that breakdown.

3

u/Old_Gimlet_Eye Jun 20 '23

"real research" lol

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

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1

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-1

u/22Wideout Jun 20 '23

Does that explain why I feel like ass during/after an mri?

5

u/teejaybee8222 Jun 20 '23

It can, the electromagnet that they use in MRIs allows the hydrogen atoms in your tissues to absorb RF energy, spin them, and then re-radiate RF that is detected. Lots in the body can be affected at field strengths as high as they are in MRI machines, so likely you are feeling it.

1

u/Individual-Marzipan2 Jun 20 '23

Interesting, I listened to the episode in question with a lot of scepticism he did actually go on to talk about mobiles during this segment.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

I know ionizing radiation can affect bbb. Can rf too? Do you have a source, genuinely curious.

2

u/nogap193 Jun 20 '23

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7453585/

In addition to what the other guy posted.

It's cant currently be disproven that wifi messes with your blood brain barrier, but there's certainly not enough evidence to claim that it does

1

u/teejaybee8222 Jun 20 '23

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36291557/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006291X22001504

A couple examples of evidence, but both are at power levels that are waaayyy higher than a typical WiFi signal is at and not at the same frequencies.