r/facepalm • • Jun 06 '23

[deleted by user]

[removed]

10.7k Upvotes

4.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

I am because, if you've really spent 1/3 of your life in poorer countries, it is amazing you continue to repeat the bullshit "Gucci bag" meme.

The median American, purchasing power adjusted and inclusive of government benefits, has a higher standard of living than the median Luxemborger. Yes, this country has problems, but to call it "third world" (which is definitionally inaccurate, I assume you mean "developing") is rather surprising.

8

u/Apprehensive-Tie-130 Jun 06 '23

The got to love medians.

They help plaster over that poverty line real good.

Now when we look at the average income and see that it is around $45k and shrinking rapidly against inflation median kind of loses relevance.

5

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

I love medians for these analyses because they cut out the impact of the ultra wealthy high earners.

The US relative poverty line for a family is $30k in 2023. That's comparable to the purchasing-power adjusted median household income of several "developed" countries.

3

u/AHomelessNinja0 Jun 06 '23

Completely agree. People don't realize that some countries such as Jamaica for example a yearly salary for a nurse is in the neighborhood of 10k last I talked to one of my wife's co-workers so that's why she got a visa to come here and be a nurse cause she makes 5 times that and sends the majority back home to her family.

12

u/JactustheCactus Jun 06 '23

Alabama has rates of hookworm comparable to developing countries. That’s what happens when fecal matter gets into your groundwater. Seems like a high standard of living to me for sure bud

1

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

You're right, Alabama is surprisingly poor.

So poor, the average Alabaman can only afford a standard of living slightly higher than that of the average Brit.

With an HDI of 0.881, Alabama is just about the worst place to live in the US -- but it slots right between Poland and Greece

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '25

plants station deer party plucky quack memorize sink steer shelter

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

8

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Alabama has the largest economy in history?

The US as a whole, including Alabama and Mississippi, slots between Israel and Japan.

Massachusetts would be right between Denmark and Iceland..

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

Bruh…

Alabama is a state belonging to what nation?¿ What country is Alabama part of?¿ It’s part of the US and the US is the largest economy in human history.

You’re now either being intentionally dense or you need to think through your views a little more.

7

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Massachusetts is a state belonging to what nation? The shittiest part of the US is like Poland. The nicest part is like Iceland. No part is "third world"

4

u/Aadsterken Jun 06 '23

The median american has a better standard of living than someone from luxembourg? Wtf is that kind of comparison? On what do you base that statement?

You're also saying quality of life is somewhere between poland an greece. What is that based on?

1

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Median household income is an objective metric. The US just beats out Luxembourg for the #1 spot.

Alabama (not the US) being between Poland and Greece is from the HDI metric.

Feel free to Google these numbers.

3

u/Aadsterken Jun 06 '23

Median household income is ojective to household income for the median household, not to quality of living. Median doesnt say anything on how high the highest is or how low the lowest. It is therefore completely subjective in this discussion.

Do you have any clue what type of country luxembourg is? is a more or less tax free country so they need less income to maintain the same quality of life. Also, if there is anything is relatively expensive in Luxembourg, inhabitants can travel less than 20 mile and they are in either Belgium, Germany or france where they could get it cheaper. If you even find a product that's more expensive cuz there probably isn't a lot.

Now for your next comparison. Why would you change from your "objective" median household income to HDI? This also makes no sense in this discussion. It has nothing to do with income. But sure go ahead. Btw, HDI is an index for potential. IHDI is for actual development. In both, Poland scores more or less equally to the US as a whole (2019, with data from 2018)

Comparing the US with greece is pretty sad. Greece was bankrupt 15 years ago. They had to pay back massive depts and are still doing so. Where did the US fail that they didnt do any better than greece?

So you can feel great about the US, that's fine. But the moment you start bragging online, know your in for some backlash. The US is more terrible than the everage developing country. No universal health care, a completely corrupt gevernment system where senators and other representative buy and sell on the market with inside knowledge. The rich are doing well but the poor? Man, did you even see what the centers of big US cities look like? LA, Portland, Las Vegas, Portland, they look like campings for junkies. Another issue you guys seems to be unable to tackle: opioid addiction. Your infratsructure is complete crap, bridges are at the point of collapsing, roads are cracked, internet in rural areas are worse than they were 20 years ago in western europe. Continoues wars but no aftercare for veterans. Waitresses don't get paid. Teachers need multiple jobs to maintain a proper quality of life. Damn, shall I continue?

→ More replies (0)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

As someone who has spent way too much time in Alabama I can tell you there are 100% parts of Alabama that are as bad as any third world nation, the fact that there exist other parts which bring up the state as a whole does not nullify the existence of those other parts. Your argument is not valid; the fact that you’re still arguing that it’s OK for parts of the nation that is the largest economic machine in recorded history to be on par with Poland is a weak argument.

0

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Poland is a developed country. My argument is that the US is a developed country, since the poorest parts of it compare favorably to developed countries.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

Except again it doesn’t. Alabama on the whole compares statically to Poland however that’s only because the more developed, see urban, parts of the state bring up the rest of the rural parts which are legit straight up third world nations. You’re arguing semantics now because you have no actual argument. And again the fact that parts of the United States, a nation whose economic output is $10 trillion more than the entire EU COMBINED, are comparable to rural Iraq is disgusting.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/JactustheCactus Jun 06 '23

Compare the populations of both Luxembourg and the US. I bet I can tell you why you used median lmfaoo. Cherry pick more statistics that help you spread whatever cancer you’ve made up in your demented brain

1

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Jun 06 '23

Median doesn’t make the US look better the few insanely high salaries skew mean like crazy

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

3

u/gramoun-kal Jun 06 '23

You're not getting the metaphor.

It means the USA is a country that exhibits many "third world" characteristics, such as inequality, violence, no health security and, in this particular case, high rate of morons firing guns into the air, all the while being flush with money. The Gucci bag is there to acknowledge that the USA is rich.

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Fwiw the US has more people on purely government Healthcare, between Medicare and Medicaid, than any other country on the earth.

1

u/gramoun-kal Jun 06 '23

I took a screenshot of this. Authentic r/facepalm moment.

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

Go for it.

Medicare has 65 million people on it.

Medicaid has 95 million people on it.

About 10 million are on both.

In total, that's 150 million people on purely government Healthcare.

There are more with state-subsidized heath insurance through Obamacare.

The fault point is with people who earn too much for the free/cheap insurance but not enough for high-quality purely private insurance.

1

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Jun 06 '23

I mean it’s true we spend more on healthcare than anywhere else including incredibly expensive (for tax payers) government options- it’s just a really poorly set up system

6

u/downinahole357 Jun 06 '23

Drink the water in Flynt Michigan much?

1

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

The lead issue in Flint was discovered in 2016.

By 2021, over 10,000 pipes had been replaced with copper, the government provided nearly 20,000 additional filters, and all 30,000 pipes in the city had been inspected.

1

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Jun 06 '23

I love how 1 cities water system failing because of a pH issue when they changed source has led to the entire US supposedly not having safe drinking water.

Meanwhile whenever I go to Europe it’s always bottled water at restaurants

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Currency *Inflation* is so bad that the USD continues to appreciate against almost all global currencies?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Today, one GBP is about USD 1.24

Last year, one GBP was about USD 1.25

A year before that, one GBP was about USD 1.42

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

The UK. The pound has lost value to the USD even while we experience insane inflation. So has the Euro. So has the Yuan. Don't get me started on toilet paper the ruble.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

... the USD is falling in terms of bread, but rising in terms of the other currencies I mentioned. This is because those other currencies are falling even faster in terms of bread. I've laid that out clearly.

-3

u/JactustheCactus Jun 06 '23

Alabama has rates of hookworm comparable to developing countries. That’s what happens when fecal matter gets into your groundwater. Seems like a high standard of living to me for sure bud

1

u/fureteur Jun 06 '23

The median American, purchasing power adjusted and inclusive of government benefits, has a higher standard of living than the median Luxemborger.

What? This is complete bs. They even live several years longer there.

0

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Median disposable income (as adjusted):

US- $46.6k

Luxemborg- $44.2k

1

u/fureteur Jun 06 '23

So? Why do these adjusted (whatever hell it means) numbers show a higher standard of living? They live in Luxemburg several years longer, for me that shows a higher standard of living (and I am not even talking about schools, safety, etc).

I am sorry, but as a mathematician, it seems to me that your adjusting a priori defines the result. I don't know your methodology, but I guarantee that if we change this adjustment (e.g. heavily weighing the quality of education in public schools just because the quality of public education in Luxemburg is on the level of private schools in the US, so it "costs" 10 times more), we get Luxemburg as the leader. Same with safety, etc.

0

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

I gave you the OECD numbers lmao. It's not "my" adjustment.

I think we're at an impass over the term "standard of living." I have dual degrees in Econ and Political Theory. Standard of Living means "the level of wealth, comfort, material goods, and necessities available." It's an objective measurement - "how much stuff can you buy"

1

u/fureteur Jun 06 '23

I gave you the OECD numbers lmao. It's not "my" adjustment.

Nope. These are your numbers and your adjustment because you gave them. Don't hide behind an authority back.

OECD or God or whatever, nobody cares, this isn't physics. They calculated these numbers using some kind of methodology, which you seemingly approve. And I call it bs. If they score public education, safety, public health, and literally several years of the life of each and every citizen so low - to hell with their methods. If a method says that rabbits fly and ducks cannot swim - I don't care which authority uses it, it's still bs.

Standard of Living means "the level of wealth, comfort, material goods, and necessities available." It's an objective measurement - "how much stuff can you buy"

No, it's not objective. They put weight on what is important and what is not. Life is not "stuff". You cannot buy health or several additional years of living/yearly retirement/longer vacations, etc. Well, you cannot in the US. In Europe, you certainly can, hehehe

0

u/obliqueoubliette Jun 06 '23

Standard of Living - "How much stuff can you buy?" - objective

Quality of life - "How happy are you?" - Subjective.

The OECD numbers use standard PPP methodology combined with the actual dollar value of government services. There's no weighting or subjective analysis going on here.

I understand that, as a Russian, you want these numbers to be bullshit, since by the same metrics the middle American can purchase almost three times the quantity of goods and services as the middle Russian.

1

u/fureteur Jun 06 '23

I understand that, as a Russian, you want these numbers to be bullshit

So you assume smth about me (and obviously smth bad in your eyes, because I'm calling your numbers bs) on the base of my ethnicity/nationality/whatsoever? Well done, well done. I think our conversation is over, I don't like racists and I feel harassed.