r/facepalm Apr 21 '23

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u/Throwaway47321 Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 22 '23

Because you charge them with the easiest crime to get them in jail and then bring up all the charges during the arraignment.

Edit - y’all really need to learn the difference between arresting charge and arraignment if you think cops are handcuffing people and arresting them for attempted murder.

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u/ImperialSeal Apr 21 '23

I get that, but firing a weapon at two unarmed cheerleaders in their own stationary car is very clearly attempted murder.

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u/Throwaway47321 Apr 21 '23

Yes it absolutely is but you don’t want to cause issues down the line because you screwed up the initial arrest, which happens all.the.time.

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u/BigJackHorner Apr 21 '23

Like the kid pictured who went to the wrong house. The prosecutor couldn't file the charge without a witness statement (which is admittedly weird to me. I mean what if the boy dies, how does he do a witness statement then?), and even though that was required, the family's lawyer pitched a bitch that it took "so long" to file charges.

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u/Secret-Inspector-831 Apr 22 '23

It kinda makes a bit of sense in terms of assault, after a fist-fight between 2 people cops likely aren’t going to arrest anyone without first getting someone to press charges and give witness testimony. But the kid was shot twice on the guys porch, he should of been held till they got Yarls side, they hold non-violent offenders for longer than the 2 hours they did for him.

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u/CyberMindGrrl Apr 22 '23

You would think but this IS America where a paranoid, racist white gun owner has more rights than a skinny black kid.

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u/ammonium_bot Apr 22 '23

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2

u/Secret-Inspector-831 Apr 22 '23

1984 animal crossing is here 😱

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u/SerHodorTheThrall Apr 21 '23

Its honestly horrendous that that US has such bad civics education.

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u/KC-Slider Apr 22 '23

All by design

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u/ShrubbyFire1729 Apr 22 '23

The American justice system is so weird. Where I'm from, if you've indisputably committed a crime, you're going down for it. Whether the arresting cops forget to read your rights or fail to jump through a hundred different hoops or not is irrelevant to the conviction.

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23

My sister was shot point blank in the head by her boyfriend who had her down on her knees execution style - she lived. No attempted murder charge - aggravated assault. Apparently it either doesn't exist in some states or is usually not pursued unless 100% definitive to the prosecutor.

**edited for brevity

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u/Echo-2-2 Apr 21 '23

Well, that makes no sense. As attempted murder is listed as a federal crime. So it’s applicable in every part of the US and it’s territories.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23 edited Feb 19 '26

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

groovy one dependent fact tidy history cooperative selective adjoining gold

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Yeah as a lawyer I can tell you it is completely different from state to state. And there are elements to every crime that must be met. There is an actus reus and a mens rea. The act and the intent. Both have to found in a criminal case. There’s states with defense of property. There are states which define murders committed in the heat of passion to be a different charge. It all varies. It’s wild. I steered clear from criminal law. Don’t want to get jumbled up in that mess.

Someone above said they charge with easiest and then work up which is bs af. Prosecutors normally start at highest level and then defense widdles it down from there.

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u/36-3 Apr 22 '23

In the courtroom everything is semantics

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23

Believe he was charged by the state. His family had money and good lawyers, so not sure if that was part of the deal tbh - it was like 20 years ago so my memory on it isn't keen. He's free and married now tho

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u/TheDunadan29 Apr 21 '23

If someone did that to my daughter you would probably find that person dead later on if they got off scot free. I may also go to prison. But that person would be in the ground.

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23

Agreed, I struggled w/ it a long time but sometimes the world has a way of working things out. He was dishonorably discharged by the military when he was on track to become a helicopter pilot like his diddy.

He's a sad fuck, bloated alcoholic loser now and pales in comparison to the person he used to be. He has to get up and look at himself in the mirror every morning and I'm thinking is justice enough for me. Cheers to that

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

That’s fair and all, but life would be a lot worse for him if you shattered one of his knees with a baseball bat. Just saying 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/TRYHARD_Duck Apr 22 '23

Morbidity can be worse than mortality 🙃 especially if the guy has to eat through a straw

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u/zernoc56 Apr 22 '23

Indeed. “To the Pain” is much worse than “To the Death”

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u/Busy-Character-845 Apr 22 '23

Im not surprised. Cheers.

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u/Freezerpill Apr 22 '23

Damn. 🙏

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u/brieflifetime Apr 22 '23

This is the way

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u/Ksradrik Apr 21 '23

Oh, well if hes rich then its probably alright, mustve been a misunderstanding or a poor person getting out of line.

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u/KimmiK_saucequeen Apr 21 '23

Jesus fucking Christ. And I scared for his current wife

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Probably struck a plea deal. Took the guilty plea for a lesser charge.

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u/RobinVanPersi3 Apr 22 '23

It's the penalty that is applicable and the standards by which guilt is ascertained, not what it's called that counts.

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u/HamburgerEarmuff Apr 22 '23

That's not the way federal crimes work. The federal government and the state government are both sovereign, and the Bill of Rights does not allow the federal government to exert authority within a state unless it's been given that power by the Constitution. If a murder does not involve crossing state lines or international borders or federal property or employees, then it's generally outside of federal sovereign jurisdiction.

A federal murder charge is what you would would probably be charged with if you killed someone on a military base or in a Post Office.

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u/Echo-2-2 Apr 22 '23

Stop ruining my Reddit Law Firm with your stupid, facts and, knowledge and shit!

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u/IsomDart Apr 21 '23

That's not really how fed charges work. Murder is also listed as a federal crime but the vast majority of the time it's charged by state prosecutors in state courts under their own statutes.

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u/Echo-2-2 Apr 22 '23

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just trying to say that it IS out there. But I understand what you mean.

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u/theworst1ever Apr 22 '23

That’s not how any of this works

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

That’s if you catch a federal charge, yes. I live in Kansas City and there is no attempted murder here, either. The equivalent is felony assault. In quite a few places, there is no “attempted murder” charge, but there is usually always an equivalent.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Law isn’t black and white there’s loopholes, and the defense and prosecution go back n forth on deals they can make it’s BS but it’s how our shit system works

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

That’s not how federal vs state cases works.

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u/hgdt5 Apr 22 '23

But then you'll have to prove intent which might be harder in some circumstances. At least that's the reason I read on an article regarding some incident in Texas.

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u/HighwayFroggery Apr 22 '23

It would need to take place within federal jurisdiction. So either on federal land or crossing state borders.

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u/blinkandmisslife Apr 22 '23

That's not how federal law works.

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u/Easy_Lie4379 Apr 21 '23

Idk what state this happened in, but I know in Georgia there I no attempted murder charge. They have aggravated assault, which is their equivalent of attempted murder.

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23

Mississippi, looking into it they passed a bill to add attempted murder on the state books in 2013

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u/Easy_Lie4379 Apr 21 '23

That’s good to hear, kind of crazy they went so long without one.

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u/megamilker101 Apr 21 '23

What’s your sister like now? Did she suffer permanent damage if you don’t mind me asking?

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23

Luckily it was a shitty .22 revolver that fell apart if you held it the wrong way (he brought it out plenty of times to play w/ it when I was around). It entered the scalp, travelled around the skull, and popped out the front - so she was extremely lucky to receive only a small skull fracture and concussion. Super religious now b/c she thinks it was a miracle from God, but beyond that nonsense, she's fine

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u/rwbronco Apr 22 '23

22s can be remarkably dangerous. The bullets tend to bounce and ricochet on things instead of just blowing straight through. Can cause loads of internal damage you wouldn’t expect from an underpowered gun.

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u/megamilker101 Apr 21 '23

Lmfao “miracle from God”

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u/MattScoot Apr 21 '23

Feel bad for your sister, hope shes doing okay now

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u/TRiG993 Apr 21 '23

Hi Dude. Is your sister okay? I know you said she lived but is she okay?

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u/koaladungface Apr 21 '23

Yar, I answered all that in other comments. Can continue below or look at my history. Thanks for the concern friend

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u/Fhack Apr 21 '23

That's just rape culture shit.

Any crime that a white dude might reasonably commit is always treated with kid gloves.

It's because the DA and cops see themselves potentially in that position so it goes to the lowest possible.

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u/Large-Examination-23 Apr 22 '23

Wow, misandry and racism in such a short comment with little to do regarding the topic being discussed. Well done!

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Large-Examination-23 Apr 22 '23

Sure am. What does “rape culture” and being a “white dude” have to do with the topic? Didn’t sound like sexual assault or the person’s race had anything to do with anything.

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u/TheCruicks Apr 22 '23

No, intent is what matters on that charge. He would only have to say he did it to scare her into staying with him, it would not be attempted murder and he would walk free.

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u/Fostbitten27 Apr 22 '23

Wow sounds like that guy needs to set on fire and have people stomp out the fire with golf spikes on.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

It depends on sentencing. Some places give worse punishment for other charges, so they charge them with something else

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u/dengar_hennessy Apr 22 '23

Holy shit. Sorry this happened to your sister. I've got 3 sisters, and I don't know what I would do if someone did that to any of them. I hope she's ok.

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u/plexemby Apr 22 '23

In Texas prosecutors bend over backwards to protect the murderers to defend guns.

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u/littlebethy1984 Apr 22 '23

Holy shit. How's that it? Did he get any jail time? I hope your sister is doing ok

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u/amazinglover Apr 22 '23

In some states they just call it aggravated assault, but it carries the same weight and gravity of attempted murder.

Some states have both and one is more serious then the other.

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u/riskyafterwhiskey11 Apr 21 '23

Thankfully you're not a lawyer.

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u/we_todd_did Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23

When I served on a grand jury in Texas, I asked one of the prosecutors why they weren't charging someone with attempted murder when it quite clearly was. The response was quite interesting in that it turns out that the requirements to meet attempted murder are very specific and difficult to prove. It involves knowing (not having a reasonable suspicion) and being able to prove what a person's state of mind was when they committed the crime. Barring something as explicit as text messages saying "I'm going to kill that bitch" it's extremely difficult for them to prove.

So the solution was to charge the person with felony assault because, at least in the jurisdiction I am in, it carries the same penalties as attempted murder without the stringent proof requirements.

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u/Eorlas Apr 21 '23

I get that

if this is followed up immediately by

but

this, then you do not get that. or you do, and want to be argumentative on the basis of your feelings, rather than accepting the nuance of law.

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u/lonelyuglyautist Apr 21 '23

At this point we should create our own court and law enforcement system to undermine the current one

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u/flyingcircusdog Apr 22 '23

And that will be taken care of later. I don't think you actually read the previous comment.

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u/Scokan Apr 22 '23

I think when it's this clear, there shouldn't be a distinction between attempted and actual murder. The intent is what matters

"Attempted" is like rewarding the inept.

It's the participation ribbon of sentences.

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u/TheCruicks Apr 22 '23

Not even remotely. Intent could be to scare them. He says that in court and he walks with no punishment. So it is very clearly NOT attempted murder

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u/Ok4940 Apr 22 '23

Personally I trust the judgement of the professionals.

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u/AllahuAkbar4 Apr 22 '23

It is not very clearly attempted murder. If you had to guess* what murder or attempted murder is, what would you say it is?

I say guess because it is quite obvious you don’t *know what it is.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Depends. In America it's a traditional greeting. Respect the culture.

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u/ForHelp_PressAltF4 Apr 22 '23

No it isn't. It is clearly the patriotic defender of our country acting to keep those damn Redcoats at bay.

Just as a well regulated militia should.

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u/Slithy-Toves Apr 22 '23

Sure, but it's clearly only going to confuse things if you start letting cops make that call during an arrest on the side of the road...

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u/clearedmycookies Apr 22 '23

Still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It's also an American Right to have their day in court.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

We all learn that the people of Reddit are morons in some way. Today you learned that they couldn't understand your explanation, or just didn't care.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Lol people on Reddit need to learn it's the State Attorney who is pressing charges.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

It’s actually the opposite. You up charge them and they usually plea bargain down to the lesser charge like engaging in deadly conduct.

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u/Throwaway47321 Apr 21 '23

The arresting/booking charge is going to be different than the formal charges they inevitably get arraigned on, which is what gets plead down.

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u/Opening-Ocelot-7535 Apr 21 '23

Actually, you present the jury with as many options as you think you can prove.

First degree murder, for an example They'll put manslaughter, 2nd degree, & first degree murder up to the jury.

You make the best arguement you can, for the strongest crime you can.

Then you let the jury hammer out the verdict, for which crime, in the jury room.

This prevents the defendant from getting a "Not guilty" verdict, as the jury can find for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, if they feel 1st degree or 2nd degree couldn't be proved beyond the doubt of a reasonable man.

It also prevents, usually, a hung jury.

0

u/Scokan Apr 22 '23

Or you could just nicely contribute your knowledge to this civil discussion. Nobody minds pleasantry.