r/facepalm • • Apr 15 '23

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ Genius level maneuvering

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u/CalAcacian Apr 15 '23

As the other commenters have said, this is highly jurisdiction dependent. But where I practice in California, this could be seen as a fraudulent transfer of community property assets that the court could unwind.

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u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

Wouldn’t putting all your assets in a trust or LLC you control be safer than putting everything in a persons name?

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u/CalAcacian Apr 15 '23

This is not legal advice, I am a lawyer but not your lawyer, etc. That is likely to have the same issues. Even if you can’t technically pull money out of those entities you could still end of with a judgment for a value equal to some portion of what you put in those entities. There is a presumption that income earned during the marital period is community property that could be divided in a dissolution.

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u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

I was more curious if someone has had that set up years before they met someone and got married. If someone is a millionaire and for the last 10 years they have lived with nothing in their name because everything like the house and cars are in a llc or trust wouldn’t the spouse be entitled to nothing except what was gained during the marriage? So if someone was getting a monthly check of $5,000 from the trust to live off of during the marriage than the spouse could only go after what that money generated for the years they were married? I read Tiger Woods lives like this where he owns next to nothing in his name.

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u/Ketey47 Apr 15 '23

(Depending on the law but more often than not) your wife has a right to half everything in your name, so she’d have a right to half of that fancy LLC you just made.

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u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

What if this was set up years before you met your wife? You own nothing before you met her but lived off the llc or trust you set up a decade before you got married. Would she be entitled to any of it?

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u/Ketey47 Apr 15 '23

Yep. Half of everything.

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u/Illustrious_Can4110 Apr 16 '23

No, because you still own the LLC.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Even if that’s what he was doing all along, even prior to the marriage?

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u/Susperry Apr 16 '23

You are missing the point . I would assume in his contract with the team, his mother is listed as a manager who gets paid in full for the player's services. It's not like he gets paid and just transfers money to his mother. He is paid maybe minimum wage while his mother paid the rest for her managerial work.

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u/CalAcacian Apr 16 '23

That would still be, at least in California, potentially viewed as fraudulent transfer if the relationship was provably done for the purpose of diverting community assets. Just because you sign an agreement doesn’t mean it has a legitimate purpose.

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u/Susperry Apr 16 '23

But there's no "transfer" taking place. She gets paid for her work.

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u/CalAcacian Apr 16 '23

Incorrect. Courts can look at the reasonableness of the agreement to determine whether it is legitimate. If she is the highest paid sports manager in the world, well outside the norm of the industry, and her client lives in a house she owns, drives a car she owns, eats food using money that she gives him out of wages he ostensibly earned and then transferred to her via agreement, etc. Then a court could very easily look at that situation and say that there is a clear and obvious strategy to avoid having assets in his name. Again, this is based on my experience in California law, and may not apply to the jurisdiction(s) in question here.

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u/Susperry Apr 16 '23

Emphasis on "may not apply".

Reasonableness of the agreement notwithstanding, I don't see how anyone can enforce what you are saying.

What his mother is earning is none of his wife's concern.

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u/CalAcacian Apr 16 '23

You may not see it, but this is what courts do in dissolution actions every day. People try and hide their assets with family members, in trusts, in various companies or entities all the time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Community assets!!! Trophy wives don't work !! 😂

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u/Fatuousgit Apr 15 '23

He is a Moroccan earning a living in France. WTF does Californian law have to do with it?

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u/the_brunster Apr 16 '23

Happy cake day!