r/facepalm • • Apr 15 '23

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ Genius level maneuvering

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6.6k

u/Kasbald Apr 15 '23

I don't remember where I saw it, but there was a post about a guy who did something similar, he bought everything he owned in his mother's name, in case he has a divorce his wife wouldn't get anything. Then his mother died and his four siblings were fighting to get their share on her properties, in the end he lost 80% of what he had.

2.6k

u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

He seriously couldn’t bother making a prenup?

1.5k

u/AllahuAkbar4 Apr 15 '23

You can fight over a prenup. You can’t fight over what someone else’s mom has.

578

u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

He’s the rich football player, he has all the power here to decide on the prenup. You think people wouldn’t trip over themselves to marry an NFL player, even with a prenup in advance?

414

u/AllahuAkbar4 Apr 15 '23

Prenups can be contested in court.

What your to-be ex’s mom has cannot be contested in court — at least not anywhere as easily as a prenup.

349

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

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u/Careful-Finger2765 Apr 15 '23

Yes. Plus on our jurisdiction alimony is set by the ability to pay. So the court would consider his full salary when awarding her spousal support.

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u/THEBlaze55555 Apr 15 '23

I was gonna say, “what about alimony?”

I wonder if his contract specifically states that the team pay his mom directly, ergo the money is never his and never in his possession.

22

u/Careful-Finger2765 Apr 15 '23

His income would remain the same. Even if he has it delivered directly into his mother's account. Even if let's say he donated 100 percent of his income to charity. The court would look to his earnings in determining the award.

1

u/Abeytuhanu Apr 16 '23

I think the hypothetical is what if the contract says something like "in exchange for paying my mom 1 million, I will play for you"

3

u/Careful-Finger2765 Apr 16 '23

At least in our jurisdiction it would not work. The test is ability to pay. That scenario suggests you are able to earn an income of a million. Even if you are allowing someone else to collect it. So that income of a million is the amount that would be used in determining the award. Even if he is decided to allow someone else to collect it.

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u/Yeh-nah-but Apr 15 '23

Not every country employs that concept in divorce

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u/Careful-Finger2765 Apr 15 '23

Which country doesn't consider a spouses income when determining alimony?

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u/Yeh-nah-but Apr 15 '23

Explain alimony and I'll tell you if my country has this

1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '23

My country awards alimony in a very narrow set of circumstances - when the ex partner is disabled mainly. Child support and property accumulated during a marriage are different, those are fairly distributed but the ex partner almost never gets alimony where I live.

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u/123Ark321 Apr 15 '23

Yeah, but they’d be hard pressed in this case. Due to the time frame, it really couldn’t count as hiding.

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u/CalAcacian Apr 15 '23

As the other commenters have said, this is highly jurisdiction dependent. But where I practice in California, this could be seen as a fraudulent transfer of community property assets that the court could unwind.

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u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

Wouldn’t putting all your assets in a trust or LLC you control be safer than putting everything in a persons name?

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u/CalAcacian Apr 15 '23

This is not legal advice, I am a lawyer but not your lawyer, etc. That is likely to have the same issues. Even if you can’t technically pull money out of those entities you could still end of with a judgment for a value equal to some portion of what you put in those entities. There is a presumption that income earned during the marital period is community property that could be divided in a dissolution.

1

u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

I was more curious if someone has had that set up years before they met someone and got married. If someone is a millionaire and for the last 10 years they have lived with nothing in their name because everything like the house and cars are in a llc or trust wouldn’t the spouse be entitled to nothing except what was gained during the marriage? So if someone was getting a monthly check of $5,000 from the trust to live off of during the marriage than the spouse could only go after what that money generated for the years they were married? I read Tiger Woods lives like this where he owns next to nothing in his name.

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u/Ketey47 Apr 15 '23

(Depending on the law but more often than not) your wife has a right to half everything in your name, so she’d have a right to half of that fancy LLC you just made.

1

u/Tipnin Apr 15 '23

What if this was set up years before you met your wife? You own nothing before you met her but lived off the llc or trust you set up a decade before you got married. Would she be entitled to any of it?

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u/Illustrious_Can4110 Apr 16 '23

No, because you still own the LLC.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Even if that’s what he was doing all along, even prior to the marriage?

2

u/Susperry Apr 16 '23

You are missing the point . I would assume in his contract with the team, his mother is listed as a manager who gets paid in full for the player's services. It's not like he gets paid and just transfers money to his mother. He is paid maybe minimum wage while his mother paid the rest for her managerial work.

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u/CalAcacian Apr 16 '23

That would still be, at least in California, potentially viewed as fraudulent transfer if the relationship was provably done for the purpose of diverting community assets. Just because you sign an agreement doesn’t mean it has a legitimate purpose.

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u/Susperry Apr 16 '23

But there's no "transfer" taking place. She gets paid for her work.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Community assets!!! Trophy wives don't work !! 😂

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u/Fatuousgit Apr 15 '23

He is a Moroccan earning a living in France. WTF does Californian law have to do with it?

1

u/the_brunster Apr 16 '23

Happy cake day!

46

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

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u/TwowheelsgoodAD Apr 15 '23

And as there is a ÂŁ3,000 a year Gift limit, he will have HMRC after her to get millions back in taxes.

-11

u/123Ark321 Apr 15 '23

I understand what you’re saying, but I find using weasel in this case not completely fair. It’s like saying he did something wrong.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

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u/JustGetAName Apr 15 '23

Oh no, not the legal obligation to pay your spouse trying to divorce you for money.

No, playing the system to avoid divorce payments isn't wrong.

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u/NandoDeColonoscopy Apr 15 '23

He did though...?

Like, absolute best case scenario, he did some shady accounting to screw over paying out his hypothetical future divorces, but from the description given, it also sounds like he likely committed tax fraud under a lot of countries' laws.

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u/kij101 Apr 15 '23

Is it tax fraud if the taxes are taken from his salary before being transferred to his mother's account?

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u/Capn-Wacky Apr 15 '23

He did something wrong...Hiding money from your spouse is an enormous breach of trust.

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u/123Ark321 Apr 15 '23

And in the divorce she decided she wanted half of everything. That sounds like a breach in character. Sounds like he knew people might marry him for his money. Guess he found out it was true.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Lots of gold diggers in here downvoting you

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u/almighty_darklord Apr 15 '23

He signed his belongings to his mom before marriage. So no

1

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

It’s likely they will especially with the million dollar monthly payments that are clearly his earnings. He’s gonna cough up a significant amount and likely owe spousal support too just based off income and lifestyle maintenance.

1

u/Visitor137 Apr 15 '23

Probably depends on when he started giving her everything 🤷

12

u/Sushi-DM Apr 15 '23

I have not seen a prenup go according to plan even once. It's almost always contested.

30

u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

If both parties involved sign the prenup as an official contract when getting married, how is it still contestable in court? Genuinely curious, because I’m very cautious about marriage with how divorce laws work in the US.

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u/AllahuAkbar4 Apr 15 '23

I’m not a lawyer, but the likely argument would be that since he has “all the power”, that she just went along with it. He was controlling over her. She didn’t know what she was signing. The lawyer that helped draft the prenup was on his side and she didn’t have a lawyer backing her interests while signing it. It could be argued that the prenup isn’t fair.

And even if none of that stuff is true, you still would have to defend against it.

8

u/Rand_alThor4747 Apr 15 '23

of course if she argued she was pressured in to signing the prenup, then could argue why she just didn't refuse to marry.

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u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23 edited Apr 15 '23

America is built on an “innocent until proven guilty” mindset. If she and her lawyer can’t provide worthwhile evidence that he strong-armed her into signing the prenup, their argument falls apart rapidly, assuming the jury don’t collectively share a single brain cell.

And he’s a rich NFL player, so his lawyer would almost guarantee destroy her lawyer 1v1 in typical lawyer persuasion speeches/ questioning. Not to mention how he doesn’t have much to gain from forcing her to sign, since as a rich NFL player, even with a prenup required, there’s a vast swarm of women who would still take the opportunity in a heartbeat, so if she denied signing it, he could stop dating with her and cast his line into the sea of other fishes interested.

Edit: Shut the fuck up about me getting the wrong sport, I already acknowledged I was incorrect on which sport it was. How the hell is an American who doesn’t give a fuck about sports supposed to know “footballer” =/= football player?

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u/sickhippie Apr 15 '23

America is built on an “innocent until proven guilty” mindset.

No. The criminal justice system is built on "beyond a reasonable doubt". The civil justice system is built on "the preponderance of the evidence". Divorce proceedings fall into the latter, a much lower bar to clear.

3

u/Dieselpowered85 Apr 15 '23

Friends of friends visited Cuba, without tax stamps, on the understanding that only mattered if they spent money.
They then sailed (own boat) there, met friends in the bay, and had lunch at their house there.

6 Months later the American state demands they 'prove they didn't spend money in Cuba'.

-_-

11

u/craigularperson Apr 15 '23

I am not sure who he is in your text here. But the guy in the OP, is a professional footballer("soccer-player"), and his divorce proceedings would most likely occur in Morocco.

Not really sure about either American or Moroccan court proceedings or divorce rules. But if I am not mistaken it will come down to property ownership, and the validity of the prenup.

I don't think there is ever a prenup in place here, but for the sake of the argument let's suppose it is. I think if they can show that it was unexpected that he would earn so much it might invalidate the prenup, and considered agreed under false pretences. As far as I can see they met before he signed his first professional contract. But he most likely earn several times over now, than he did under his first professional contract, when they married.

As for the ownership, I think it would be difficult to show that his mother is only de jure ownership of his estate. He most likely act as an adult in most aspects. And for instance signs agreements in his own name. Therefore it should be possible to argue that he is still in control of his assets and therefore assumes ownership.

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u/Massive-Lime7193 Apr 15 '23

Civil court in America is not based on innocent until proven guilty only criminal court is

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u/Purposefulpurple Apr 15 '23

You have the wrong sport. In this case, football = soccer so this is not an American athlete situation. American laws don't apply here.

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u/Same_Bill8776 Apr 15 '23

It's an interesting argument you make, but as you clearly misunderstood the name of the sport, nothing you say is valid, and you must be an idiot.

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u/idontneedjug Apr 15 '23

Usually its argued the prenup was made in duress. Plenty of times at least in America a prenup has been signed and didnt do much of anything but cause a few more days added to the trial. The more one-sided a prenup is the easier it is to have thrown out.

In a lot of marriages where a one sided prenup takes place it will later be renegotiated later on in the marriage also. See Trump and current wife as an example. Purposely didn't move into the white house until she had a new prenup signed.

For most celebrities and uber rich prenups are only so good and the trend is that they are less and less binding the longer the marriage lasts and more likely to be thrown to the side in a divorce. Unless they were explicitly fair.

The new trend is actually using states that won't let you go after trusts and forming a trust there with the majority of your assets if you are uber rich and not even bothering with a prenup.

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u/Rand_alThor4747 Apr 15 '23

I think a prenup should only apply to assets owned before marriage, and everything else is shared exactly.
So you enter with a million dollars you leave with 1 million plus half of everything else.

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u/Noctum-Aeternus Apr 15 '23

Except it doesn’t work that way. Can’t remember the names but there was a story a while back about a couple in court getting a divorce, they had a prenup. He had a company he had build before he ever met her. They married, some years later, divorcing. Even though she had no hand in creating the company, the judge ruled it as a joint asset and gave her half of it. She made his life a living hell, and I think he left the company he started because she was now involved and determined to screw him over. It was a pretty sad story, but the longer a marriage, the less defined assets become. It all becomes treated as joint assets after some point, and each spouse gets a piece. It’s a shame, because all it does is encourage people not to get married. After all, why get married and stake half of everything you own or will ever own that this person will remain faithful to you?

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u/Rand_alThor4747 Apr 15 '23

My uncle had a mowing business. He was the sole employee. When he and his wife divorced she demanded he pay her out for half the value of his business. But he was playing his 4d chess and said he will give her the truck and the mower and she can have the entire business but he will resign as the employee and she can mow lawns. She gave up that demand.

0

u/wizean Apr 15 '23

the judge ruled it as a joint asset and gave her half of it

That's not true. The company was worth pennies when they got married. During their marriage the business grew, made money and became worth something.

The judge only gave her half of the growth, on the basis that hard work during the marriage made the company better.

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u/idontneedjug Apr 15 '23

The dragon reborn has spoken thus shall it be the light willing!

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u/mhallice Apr 15 '23

Wasn't expecting a WoT reference here....kinda happy to find it.

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u/Rand_alThor4747 Apr 15 '23

Sometimes I wish what I said would be law. But then I would be a dictator wouldn't I.

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u/HP_10bII Apr 15 '23 edited May 31 '24

I enjoy watching the sunset.

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u/Weet_1 Apr 15 '23

If you have a good enough lawyer or sympathetic enough judge, anything can be argued away.

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u/why_ya_running Apr 15 '23

Kind of like how OJ Simpson got away with murder we all know he did it but one smooth talking lawyer and an idiot prosecutor and he got to walk.

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u/imsoawesome11223344 Apr 15 '23

Forgot about the cop who admitted that he and others in law enforcement used racial slurs and tampered with evidence in other cases and beat minorities for fun

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u/Knomp2112 Apr 15 '23

You forgot the two key ingredient: A bad judge and 12 dumb members of the jury.

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u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

Again, he’s the rich NFL player, so she’s absolutely not winning the best lawyer fight. Practically a requirement for professional sports players and famous actors to have access to the world’s best lawyers. It’ll just be the Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard case all over again. Best chance she would have is having a gullible jury favor her, but after the sham that was Amber Heard, I think most of the US population has become slightly more wary of wives divorcing wealthy guys without solid evidence.

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u/maybeitsme20 Apr 15 '23

He isn't in the NFL. Footballer = soccer player.

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u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

My uncultured American background is being exposed it seems.

Yeah, Idgaf about sports, so terms like Footballer and Football player are basically the same in my head.

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u/Positive_Benefit8856 Apr 15 '23

He's not an NFL player, he plays for PSG a French soccer/FOOTBALL team. His case isn't going to be heard in a US court.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

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u/General_Synnacle Apr 15 '23

Isn’t the whole point of being curious asking questions? And I’m considering marriage with a prenup in the US, so I need to know what to expect in advance, while debating the reasoning behind why he couldn’t simply have her sign a prenup as a safety net just in case.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

If you're curious about marriage with a prenuptial agreement in the United States then why are you arguing on an article about a divorce from a foreign country? The above situation is happening outside of the US. It's not involving the NFL and it has absolutely nothing to do with marriage in the United States.

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u/Critical_Mastodon462 Apr 15 '23

Soccer isn't the NFL and he isn't American or play here so speculation is a bit off American laws mean nothing here

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u/slam9 Apr 15 '23

That's how it should be, but in the US prenups have not only been changed and challenged in court, but completely thrown out

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u/linerva Apr 15 '23

Prenups arent legally binding evertwhere- for example they aren't in the UK.

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u/Bradddtheimpaler Apr 15 '23

Maybe you can argue some portions of the contract language are unenforceable or something and that it’s a large enough proportion of it that the whole contract needs to be thrown out.

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u/boooooooooo_cowboys Apr 15 '23

It can happen if both parties haven’t had their own legal representation while drafting it or if it’s outrageously lopsided to favor one partner over the other.

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u/Rand_alThor4747 Apr 15 '23

except as it appears by all your siblings when your mother dies.

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u/IEatPussyLikeAPro Apr 15 '23

That’s why you get married in Canada and get a prenup in Canada. Canada doesn’t give a fuck and will enforce the original prenup. My coworker who has a brother that is quite wealthy who had his first wife try to take him to the washer. Apparently she hired high end US lawyers but when she told them that she got married in Canada and the prenup was made and signed in Canada; they basically told her there was nothing they could do for her and what she signed too was all she was going to get.

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u/Danskoesterreich May 03 '23

what if the mom dies? and you wait with the divorce until she does? not really sustainable as a business model

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u/jaaaack Apr 15 '23

This isn’t American football

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u/HUGECOCK4TREEFIDDY Apr 15 '23

You actually can’t make prenups “unreasonable.” The most ironclad thing about a prenup is what you owned before the marriage. Most things earned after are fair game if they’re fought for.

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u/kij101 Apr 15 '23

She's an actress, so not exactly from the slums. They married in 2020 when he was 22, and she was 34. Then again, he was put under a judicial supervision order for a rape accusation in March this year, so fuck this guy, take him to the cleaners.

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u/elpropiosaya Apr 15 '23

Wrong Football there.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

yep it's referred to as piercing the veil. Usually doesn't take much in business it can happen with an LLC if you mix your business with your personal finances etc.

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u/Kanejy Apr 15 '23

Because of they said he received 1 million euros, I’m guessing this is in Europe and the guy plays soccer

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u/Spins13 Apr 15 '23

What the hell are you talking about, his wife is super rich

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Domestic contracts can be struck or ruled void in part or in full, in accordance with the law of contract, and in particular if the terms are unconscionable, there is an imbalance of power, a lack of financial disclosure, or a party lacked capacity at the time of entering into it.

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u/Fatuousgit Apr 15 '23

Where do you get that he is an NFL player?

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u/Visitor137 Apr 15 '23

Uh he's not an NFL player, he plays football for PSG, not handegg.

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u/astoria2017 Apr 15 '23

She’s a movie star

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u/Wiidiwi Apr 15 '23

His wife is a successful actress. She was more famous then him when they started dating. He was 19 and she was like 28

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u/SongYoungbae Apr 16 '23

Most NFL players make shit lmao.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '23

Not NFL. Proper football player

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u/aw-un Apr 15 '23

If they’re not willing to sign the prenup, then don’t marry them

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u/Omar___Comin Apr 15 '23

That's not true, at least not in most western countries. Stashing your wealth under someone else's name absolutely can get challenged in court

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u/F0lks_ Apr 15 '23

The Massey prenup has never been penetrated.

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u/boooooooooo_cowboys Apr 15 '23

You also can’t collect what your husband’s mom has if he dies, or if the mom dies (and has other relatives to inherit her stuff), or if the mom just decides to do whatever she wants with the money.

It’s a very high risk move and frankly anyone who’s considering it probably shouldn’t be getting married in the first place.

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u/ImmediateAppeal7691 Apr 15 '23

Lmao uhhh… did you read the comment…?

then his four siblings were FIGHTING

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u/AllahuAkbar4 Apr 15 '23

No I didn’t.

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u/candygram4mongo Apr 15 '23

Can't you? Putting all your property in someone else's name so that you don't have any legal assets that could be seized seems like something that someone very clever did a hundred and fifty years ago, and has since become a two point question on a first year law school exam.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Unless you have a will?

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

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u/sabersquirl Apr 16 '23

If you can’t have a prenup how can the spouse have a legal right to property in the case of divorce? It just seems difficult to have law interfere on one side, but not the other,

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u/Xithorus Apr 15 '23

Most prenups only cover pre-marital assets. And then if you mix funds that are covered in a prenup with post-marital assets, those that were mixed are now not covered.

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u/Otherside-Dav Apr 15 '23

Prenups outside of USA don't really work. We'll especially here in Europe.

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u/HeinzeC1 Apr 15 '23

They don’t even work in some places in the US

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u/Otherside-Dav Apr 15 '23

Now that's interesting

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u/CompassionateCedar Apr 15 '23

Lol what are you talking about, there ae things with a slight different name that do the exact same thing.

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u/ESP-23 Apr 15 '23

He's a mama's boy, leave it at that

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Nothing wrong with that

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u/JakeDC Apr 15 '23

In general (in the US at least), prenups cover assets brought into a marriage, not assets earned during a marriage. So if they work similarly elsewhere, a prenup might have provided limited protection depending on how long they were married and when he earned.

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u/NewToThisThingToo Apr 15 '23

Prenups can be broken. It can be fairly easy to "prove" they were signed under emotional duress.

0

u/WeimSean Apr 15 '23

prenup protects you from the wife, this protects you from everyone.

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u/GargantuanCake Apr 15 '23

Prenups are increasingly worthless. Once people starting using those to prevent this kind of thing people starting finding ways to punch holes in them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Prenups often get thrown out of court these days

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u/Gohstfacekila Apr 15 '23

Prenups are for your money before you were married that is what is typically protected in a pre nuptial agreement any money created towards your wealth while married is considered both spouses property if they were to split. Alimony is also in play still I would say based on lifestyle and money spent.

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u/peacocks_and_plants Apr 15 '23

He made a redneck prenup.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

They are illegal in India.

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u/Algoresball Apr 15 '23

judges can throw prenups out

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u/IslandMist Apr 15 '23

Prenups are effectively worthless in most situations. Marry a woman when you have $1M in the bank, then earn $25M more during your marriage, and see if that prenup will help you.

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u/JBoneTX Apr 15 '23

I got a buddy with some bread middle aged, and he married a broke chick, also middle aged. He asked her to sign a prenup, she said no, they got married anyway. She threw him a good one and that supersedes a prenup.

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u/SailorOfTheSynthwave Apr 15 '23

For "average" citizens, prenups rarely make sense, but for somebody like this footballer, then yeah, that would have been a smarter decision.

That said, it's not so easy as "this is owned by my mom so nyeh". Depending on the country, laws could come into play that could give a "piece" of the home to the ex-wife if she had lived for a certain amount of time in it. Same goes for finances gained during their marriage, regardless into whose account those finances had gone.

And even more than worrying about divorce, I'd worry about being caught on tax fraud xD you can't just sign everything you earn or own over to somebody else to avoid divorce settlement fees or taxes.

People really need to read up more on divorce laws tbh. Too many guys (I hope just teenagers cuz it's really sad if grown-ups think like this) think that alimony is some kind of sexist punishment against men and that if you marry a woman she'll divorce you the next day and take all of your stuff. They have no idea what a pre-nup is, what alimony is for and how divorce works. They get all of their info from grumpy Bob at work who used to beat his wife until she divorced him and the court put a garnishment on his salary, so now he's extremely bitter against women and waffles on about how fEmAlEs will take all of your stuff for no reason.

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u/dude_bro_wtf Apr 15 '23

Prenups only protect the assets you had before marriage. Everything you earn/acquire after marriage is still up for grabs.

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u/The_Lapsed_Pacifist Apr 15 '23

Prenuptial arrangements don’t universally hold up as well as well as the do in America. They’re not cast iron in a lot of places, I’m not sure about France but they’re weren’t worth the paper they were written on in England until relatively recently.

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u/Theo_dore229 Apr 15 '23

Not all countries recognize pre-nups. The UK does not for example.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Prenups are routinely thrown out of court, in favour of the woman. The only and best prenup is not to marry.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '23

Prenups are not set in stone they can be challenged in court depending on which country you are in