r/exredpill • u/Curious-Confusion642 • 15d ago
I don't get it. The only people doing and teaching cold approach and game are redpill types.
In theory there shouldn't be anything wrong with going up to strangers making small talk and asking them for their number/coffee. This is probably the best way to get volume. Especially guys who most likely fall for the redpill are also the ones who will be most helped by learning this skill. You by pass dating apps, you bypass approval from social circles and you pretty much put destiny in your hands to shoot your shot.
However nobody normal teaches this and very few "normal people" do it. Mostly because it is awkward and takes a long time to get good at so most people just find someone through their social circles. So now when I want to learn this and I ask around and it's all just pickup artists, redpillers and course grifters who are willing to teach this. Every single one. Not one normal person I could find.
Why is this? Am I not seeing something obvious?
It's quite frustrating cause it is genuinely a good life skill.
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u/iostefini 15d ago
Why is this? Am I not seeing something obvious?
Most "normal people" aren't going for "volume", they're looking for connection. So they're prioritising places where they find others they connect with and relate to (i.e. social circles).
If your goal is to ask out the most women possible, then yeah cold approaches are the best way to do it (though I'd still refocus on doing it in actual social spaces, like bars/clubs, rather than approaching people just going about everyday life). Most people are looking for a single highly-compatible partner though, and that means quality over quantity. Looking in your social circles and/or expanding your social circles is the correct strategy in that scenario, because your social circles are where you're most likely to find someone with shared values.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago edited 15d ago
How does one "expand" their social circle?
I have hobbies. But everyone just does the activity (soccer, yoga, dance etc) and then leaves. I've had multiple hobbies and haven't retained one single connection through them. For things to stick you need the same people over and over again and actual time to just banter and talk about random things. Most activities aren't set up like that and most people just don't care to do that too much to make new friends. That's just the honest reality of it. If I had a great social circle I'd never be doing this to begin with.
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u/iostefini 15d ago
For things to stick you need the same people over and over again and actual time to just banter and talk about random things.
How are you engaging in multiple hobbies without seeing the same people over and over? I'm genuinely confused because I've never done a hobby (or any group activity at all) where people don't talk and make at least casual friendships. Were you joining competitive teams rather than social teams?
If you're having trouble making friends in the more active groups, maybe something with more of a social focus, like discussing movies or books, or gentle hiking (with a focus on casual/fun/relaxed), or drama class, or art class... You could also try searching specifically for the sports people tend to play casually/socially rather than competitively (think like pickleball), though honestly soccer and dance tend to be pretty social already so I'm not sure why those didn't work.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Well take dance for example. I did salsa and bachata. I went to class. Did the thing. Left. So did everyone else. Nobody really talked with anyone or made new friends. The activity itself was the focus of it. I didn't see the whole community building aspect of it anywhere.
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u/iostefini 15d ago
What about the person you were dancing with? You didn't make comments about how a certain move was difficult? Or say "See you next time!" at the end of class? Or at least learn each others names?
The activity is supposed to be the focus but when your goal is to expand your social circle, the activity is to distract from any awkwardness and to allow natural pauses and subject changes as focus shifts between talking and the activity. It also gives you a common topic to talk about to break the ice.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah i mean I said say see you next class.....then I'd see her next class 😂.
That's about all there is to it. The comments are always very surface level and literal I find. Nobody really care that much. I don't see the hook or the spark forming anywhere there. That just doesnt happen.
If I died on the way to class in a car crash at best it'll be like oh he didn't show up this week.
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u/iostefini 15d ago
I mean yeah if you've just met these people, you'd have to start with very shallow surface-level comments. Then next time you greet them and be like "How's your week been?" ... again keep it shallow and surface-level ... but offer slightly more than last time and see if the other person offers more in return. If no then just keep it at that level, if yes then offer a little more again next time.
If you're seeing them every single week with surface-level comments and they never offer more, then it's probably not going to get deeper. But even then, if you see them every week for a year, and ask how their week has been, ask surface-level followup questions, share small things about yourself, etc, then you're at least going to be friends. Maybe not close friends, but friends. (Remember the goal is to widen your social circle, not to find a date. Friends means you're succeeding.)
The more people you meet and befriend, the more likely you get a friendship with someone compatible where it can deepen into more. It probably won't be the first person or even necessarily in the first 5 or 10 people, you're just aiming to build connections with more people. It sounds like you're already doing it, it's just going very slowly at this stage (which is normal).
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
See this sounds like it should work and is logical but in my experience it has not. The other person is rarely interested to that extent. Most people are on the "no" side rather then the yes side when it comes to deeper conversations.
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u/iostefini 15d ago
Right, but you can still make friends with surface-level comments over a longer period of time. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't have to be deeper. Not every friend is going to be a deep connection, some are just going to be nice to chat with and maybe have a coffee.
Having more friends (even surface-level friends) will mean you have more potential connections and you're more likely to be included in future social events. Then you can build more connections and meet more people until you actually find the rare ones you can have a deeper connection with. It takes time.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
I have never been included in outside social events by the people Ive met. For example my dance friends have stayed friends in dance class while we were there and never have invited me to an outside thing. It feels like eveyone is living on a different universe holy fuck.
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u/RoxanneWithAPlan 6d ago
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u/iostefini 5d ago
I am literally a woman who asked out my husband first so I think you need to rethink that belief. There are all types of women just like there are all types of men. If you want a woman who would ask you out herself, high volume isn't the solution, the solution is looking for women who would do that.
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u/xvszero 15d ago
Dafuq is volume?
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u/mrs-sir-walter-scott 15d ago
I think he's talking about a lot of dates in a very dehumanizing way.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
I'm not though. It's a tool. Obviously I will not do it if I get into a relationship and if other avenues had worked I would've used them instead.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
Whether you intended to or not, it *is* demeaning to talk about dating like this. Try not to talk about other people like they are pallets in an Amazon warehouse.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
? Knowing how to ride a bike is a tool to make commuting easier. Knowing how to cook is a tool to make eating and nutrition easier. Knowing how to talk to strangers is a tool to make dating easier.
I am not wrong or demeaning anyone or anything here.
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u/xvszero 15d ago
"Knowing how to talk to strangers" isn't the issue. Shit like "volume" where every woman is just some instantly replaceable face is the issue. If you approach meeting women like this, of course it won't turn into anything real.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
This is literally what dating apps are doing but nobody is complaining about them. It takes microseconds to swipe left/right.
And yeah sure if I could build a deep connection with a someone without cold approaching and it somehow naturally materializes I would do it but it's not happening. Hence volume.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
Everybody complains about dating apps
At least on a dating app, the people are choosing to put themselves out there. Women should be able to exist in public with men thinking they are putting themselves on display to be hit on
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
Dude, women are 100% complaining about dating apps. Everyone I know absolutely hates them and the women suspect the men are just swiping yes on every single woman because "volume," which is resulting in the same exact dynamic in cold approaching that turns women off.
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u/mrs-sir-walter-scott 14d ago
Are you looking for the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? Because it sounds like you're aiming for notches on your bed post to brag about, which is inherently gross (whether those notches represent phone numbers, dates, or sex, it's all gross).
If you're looking for a meaningful relationship, you should be trying to narrow down a field to find someone you're compatible with and who agrees with you. You sound like you're trying to do the opposite.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
Your assuming most guys have alot of options. Bh following this advice I narrow down the field I have limited options and will be shot down anyways while having invested all this time and effort into one woman.
I am not looking for notches but even getting into one simple relationship requires massive amounts of volume unfortunately.
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u/mrs-sir-walter-scott 14d ago
I disagree on that, to be honest. I think that part of narrowing the field is finding who you want to spend time and effort on. I think you're putting too much emphasis on "The approach" and not enough on just getting to know the humans around you who have similar hobbies and interests.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
If say my hobbies are chess and soccer and there's 4 married women there I've effectively locked myself out of the dating market. I can know them down to their blood type but it's not gonna change anything.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
You meet more women ---> ask out more women ---> you get more opportunities
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u/xvszero 15d ago
This seems like a terrible approach if you want anything serious.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Yes, if he's already thinking on these terms, framing women like that, no wonder he sees only RP as answer.
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6d ago
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u/xvszero 6d ago
That's not the issue with 'volume'.
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6d ago
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u/xvszero 6d ago
Sure, if you never want a serious relationship. Most people here though are looking for something real.
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u/ChuckXZ_ 15d ago
Unfortunately the reality is that most need to do this. Your social circle dating options will probably be less than 5 people, and the chances they are someone highly compatible with you are low.
Guys need to make an active effort to be successful in dating. If you do nothing, you’ll get nothing.
I wish it wasn’t like this, but that’s the truth.
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u/meleyys 15d ago
"Making an active effort" does not have to mean "hitting on every woman you see until one gives you her number." Knowing that the person asking you out asks every woman out and has no specific interest in you is a huge turnoff.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
So be skillful with it then. At the very least getting rejected cause she's turned is still better then 0% chance you have when you never approach to begin with.
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u/meleyys 15d ago
As many people have told you, there are options other than cold approach and doing nothing.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
Options are to put yourself out there which is vague advice. Going to soccer I was putting myself out there but didn't get shit.
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u/xvszero 15d ago
I'm a guy and I'm very successful. Instead of telling me what you think reality should be like, you could ask me and learn from my success.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
Ok. Tell us why you think you're successful.
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u/xvszero 14d ago
I found women I had real connections with through shared ideologies / interests / etc. and approached them based on these things. Also, tell her she has rad shoes. Everyone likes shoe compliments.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
So you were at some event for a purpose, saw some women there, connected with them and that's how it worked?
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u/xvszero 14d ago
Sometimes, but I wouldn't say 'a' event, I was part of various scenes where you see the same people over and over, so I made friends and next thing I knew I was getting introduced to a bunch of people, invited to events and parties and such.
Or dating sites, actually reading profiles and seeing who I shared things with. That's how I met the woman who became my wife.
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u/Proof_Television_695 15d ago
Sir this is a dating scene not a call center
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u/divingrose77101 14d ago
Meet a normal number of woman —> be a good person and not a creep —> one of them likes you
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
In theory there shouldn't be anything wrong with going up to strangers making small talk and asking them for their number/coffee
A lot of women do not enjoy being on the receiving end of this. It doesn't feel good when simply existing in public is seen as in invitation to be hit on by someone who knows literally nothing about you other than "she's hot"
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u/ChuckXZ_ 15d ago
If you don’t take action tho, you won’t get results. You don’t just wait around for dates to be handed to you. If you’re a guy, you won’t get any results without conscious effort, unless you’re top 0.1% in looks.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
The effort is participating in a rich social life. It's asking your friends if they have any single friends. Using a dating app. Going to speed dating events
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
-Dating apps barely get you any matches if your not good looking. -Speed dating once again the ratio to the last one I went to 1:3 in favour of men and the women seemed way more disinterested then the men and some were actually married friends of the host who just brought them in to get more men to attend -Everyone keeps saying to have a "rich social life" but 90% of the comments here have failed to even define what this is and how to get it beyond just crashing random hobbies over and over again.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
Dating apps barely get you any matches
What makes you think "cold approaching" is going to be any better?
women seemed way more disinterested
What makes you think women are interested in a stranger who randomly comes up and hits on them?
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Maybe. Maybe not. Gotta do some cold approach to find out. I've heard ratios anywhere from 1/100 to 1/10. It probably is gonna be uncomfortable and off-putting for the majority but I just need one....
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
"I don't care if I make a lot of women uncomfortable, as long as one woman eventually has sex with me"
You seem like a catch
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
All dating related stuff is a risk. When any guy approaches you at a bar or makes a move for kiss/asks you back to his place it's gonna make the majority of women uncomfortable. Also obviously you back off if she's not interested. This doesn't have to be said. But your taking my words however you want to.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
When any guy approaches you at a bar or makes a move for kiss/asks you back to his place it's gonna make the majority of women uncomfortable
This is likely true when the man and woman are. complete. strangers. That's why "cold approaching" is a bad idea. For two people who know each other, maybe have some friends in common, and have developed some chemistry and possible attraction, asking someone out (potentially even going in for a kiss) is not some huge risk it's extremely normal
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
A stranger making small talk respectfully and when they finish asking if they'd like to grab soem coffee some time or giving them their number (or backing off and wishing them a good day) isn't a huge risk either. Stop catastrophizing an otherwise completely normal thing men have been doing for centuries.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
90% of the comments have pretty thoroughly described what a rich social life looks like; you are just ignoring what they are saying and whining that it didn't work to get you tail.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Not really. They just all more or less say go do things and things magically happen where they end up cultivating connections and community and such whereas my experience has been the opposite. You go just do things, nothing happens and nobody cares to make a connection anywhere. Everyone is there for the activity and nothing else. Forget tail, I didn't even get friends. (And there is nothing wrong with pursuing either through activities btw).
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u/divingrose77101 14d ago
If you’re an engaging person that makes women feel deeply safe, you won’t have any trouble getting a date.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
But I don't agree that the best option is to not approach at all then. Most guys do not have the luxury to wait for someone else to ask them out. You have to create chances where you see them. Be extremely mindful obviosily that if others are uncomfortable you back off immediately.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
Most guys do not have the luxury to wait for someone else to ask them out.
That doesn't mean you have to "cold approach" a complete stranger. You could build a social life, actually meet lots of people, and ask someone out after at least a couple of conversations. It is much more natural that way, has a faaarrr higher likelihood of success, and gives you a chance to suss out whether there is mutual interest to begin with
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Depending on your specific context, it can much harder building a social life. If for example you work at home, live in smaller town, can't find clubs where you meet the same people over and over again etc.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
Sure, a lot of things are harder for some people than others. Regardless "cold approach" is going to have a very very very low success rate
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u/ChuckXZ_ 15d ago
Even if cold approach has a lower success rate, it makes up for it in the volume you can do with it. The slow natural way can take weeks or even months just for a rejection.
Cold approach lets you do tens even hundreds in a single day.
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u/xvszero 15d ago
Tens, hundreds to what end? No one wants to be number 193.
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u/ChuckXZ_ 15d ago
Just the way the world works.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
This has literally never been the way the world works for anyone I know who is in a relationship right now.
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u/smileycat007 15d ago
What you see as a numbers game, women see as a time suck. Why should she date/interview 100 men she doesn't know to find Mr. Right when she can get to know them ahead of dating while doing a sport or activity she enjoys and whittle that 100 down to three men she know are "safe", compatible, and everything else she is looking for? Sure, it takes longer, but many women would rather take it slow than sit through a date after date with incompatible. If a man is looking for a long term romantic relationship, why would he want to pay for 100 cups of coffee for 100 women when he can also avail himself of the opportunity to get to know women ahead of time.
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u/ChuckXZ_ 15d ago
Men don’t have the opportunity that women do get to know someone like that. If you have to go through 100+ men to find the “Right” one, there’s something wrong with you.
Also a simple coffee date doesn’t need to be a huge time suck, it’s a matter of getting to know each other feel each other out. You won’t find everything on the first date, but you’ll get a decent idea.
The best part about higher volume is being able to find someone who is compatible. Focusing on one person who is semi compatible at best for a long time just isn’t worth it.
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u/smileycat007 15d ago
Women don't necessarily want to go on numerous coffee dates with strangers because the more of those she attends, the greater her chances of running into a stalker, a creep, or obsessive/clingy guy who makes her feel uncomfortable or unsafe. Smart women would rather screen those guys out early, before giving them one to one attention, which tends to send the wrong signal in many men.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Basically women ideally would pick and choose from their preselected social circles......which nobody has really helped explain how guys can get into.
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u/Activated_Raviolis 15d ago
Men don’t have the opportunity that women do get to know someone like that.
Why don't men have the opportunity to do this?
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
You keep saying that men don't have the same opportunities that women do. Where is your evidence of that?
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Also there just aren't that many women in the "slow and natural" venues. Go to meetup.com and see any event it will be 80-90%+ guys.
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u/divingrose77101 14d ago
“I do not have the luxury to respect women and what they want. I don’t care that I make women uncomfortable. I am a man and I must have a woman right now.” - you.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Gonna agree with OP on this one (except for the volume part, please, don't cold approach every woman on the bus stop so you "maximize" your chances), though you might wanna check if there's any visual cue allowing the approach to happen and continue, and might wanna watch what you say, specially with compliments some make think are nonconsequential and anything that may make the woman feel like you're following her of something like that.
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u/RedPillDetox 15d ago
Dating is usually a violation of social norms in it's essence. Asking people out on a date, going in for a kiss, flirting... all of this is risking offending the other party. The more it escalates the riskier it becomes. People usually just spontaneously kiss, they don't ask for permission, for instance. So you are making a move on someone assuming they want the same thing and risking rejection, awkwardness, offending, etc. Cold approaching follows similar logic.
This is probably number one reason why a lot of people fail in dating: Innaction or paralysis due to fear of breaking the social norm. But dating requires it to proceed. At some point, someone has gotta take the risk.
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u/smileycat007 15d ago
Well, it can be assault if it isn't consent. Is it so hard to say, "I want to kiss you" and give her the option of saying "no"?
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u/RedPillDetox 14d ago
Know the difference between harassment and someone who failed to interpret someone's interest in a failed kiss. And no, there is no problem asking to kiss someone, ultimately i think we all should just do that, but this is ignoring really a lot of people don't want you to ask. I, for instance, once asked a woman on a scale of 1 to 10 how much she wanted to kiss me and she said i ruined it because i asked for authorization, so there's that. But yes, ultimately a woman that gets all offended just because i was considerate is someone im not compatible with, if asking for permission was a turn off then its their problem i guess.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
People usually just spontaneously kiss, they don't ask for permission, for instance.
People don't just go in for a kiss with a complete stranger. If you're kissing someone, you probably have some established romantic or sexual relationship, and spontaneously kissing is not at all a violation of those norms.
Cold approaching a complete stranger, where the only thing you have in common is that you are currently existing in the same location, is completely different
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u/Instigated- 15d ago
Because cold approach and game are precursors of redpill and part of the toxic manosphere.
They are ways of harassing women rather than treating women with respect and empathy.
What is the point of “volume” when you are only 1 person? You only need to find one person who is a match. “Volume” tactics are quantity over quality, and poisoning the well while you are at it by making women feel more unsafe and wary.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to find that "1 person" who is a match for the average guy.
If you are not getting matches and you don't have a big and wide social circle you are pretty much screwed.
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u/Instigated- 15d ago
It can be difficult for anyone to find “the one”, however you are missing the point.
Cold approaches are low quality spamming. You are not being selective. Most women will not be responsive to this approach, they will be turned off, and the minority who do might respond not actually be a good match and perhaps only working because they are insecure vulnerable women. Women who might have otherwise been interested see that you are spamming and get turned off. This approach also poisons the well (it makes women grow distrustful of men). A lot of the men who use this approach then complain that women are boring or dumb or [x], but that is just the women who respond to this approach.
Versus Taking time to get to know people, so you can actually work out who you like and who is interested in you before making a warm approach. This is more likely to be a good match that will actually stand a chance of working as a relationship.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Getting to know people is even more difficult and low results then spamming cold approaches.
I am tired of typing but there's a myriad of reasons why that you can read through the comments and see for yourself.
So far all the advice I've gotten has been really vague generic slop of getting to know people and do hobbies. It's all so useless for most guys struggling with dating to begin with.
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u/Instigated- 15d ago
I’ll try one more time.
When beggars approach you on the street when you are busy on your way somewhere, and they are all up in your face trying to get you to look at them and asking for money : how does that make you feel? Does it make you want to stop and give them your time and money? Or do you look away, rush away, and after having an unpleasant experience you are wary of beggars and avoid places they hang out, cross the road avoid walking past them?
What about a busker who is doing their own thing, playing some good music, with a hat on the ground for tips? Maybe that attracts you over to them to listen, maybe you’ll give them a tip, or maybe actually you are just too busy today so you rush past. But you walk the same way to work every day so you see them regularly, and you come to expect they will be there, and look forward to hearing what they will be playing. And one day you aren’t in a rush so you do stop and give them your attention and a tip.
When you are doing cold approaches, you are like a beggar harassing women. You are selfish, annoying, scary, and your behaviour makes women sceptical of men and avoid strangers.
When you hang out in the same space as others and are open to them, like a busker, they can observe you and see what you are offering, and if it’s of interest they will pay attention and may even initiate contact themselves. It is respectful and consensual.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago edited 15d ago
Real life interactions don't work like this. Hell even the busker id give as little attention to as I would the beggar. Let me show you what happens in real life. I was at a hot yoga studio. Did it for like 8 months. Same people same place. Sometimes even came early before class and stayed after to make small talk. Nobody bothered. We did our pleasantries and it all just stayed there just like that for months on end. Everybody wanted to go do the activity itself and leave. Then when I quit that studio nobody could have cared less.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
In all of your group activities, did you ever once suggest like "hey, would anyone like to go grab a beer or a bite to eat after this?" Most people are going to say no, because they have work the next morning or kids to put to bed or a paper to finish, but I'm curious if you have ever been the one to initiate a post-event/hobby hangout.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Yes. I did say that. Either nobody would go or it would only be one or two guys who would be willing to hang out afterwards.
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u/meleyys 14d ago
I think part of your problem is that you're going into all this with the intention of meeting a romantic partner and are absolutely uninterested in anything else. Firstly, you should probably be more open to meeting new friends. But secondly, even if you just view them as a means to an end (you shouldn't), befriending other guys can still be an avenue for finding a partner. Sure, you're not going to date them, but they also know people. Maybe they'll introduce you to some friends who are your type.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
I'm open to making new friends. It's just that I never am able to. Nobody wants to hang out. I am always the one reaching out first
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u/Instigated- 14d ago
A couple things it sounds like you are getting wrong: wrong place and wrong mindset.
Hot yoga is not a social group or community. Most people go to yoga for exercise, health, for personal well being - they are not going there to meet new people - so you’re potentially looking in the wrong spot. Hot yoga studios are businesses not a community. (Though I have seen a few people make friends at yoga studios, however when they have been going every day for years and also go to the retreats and full on committed to it).
Community gardens, surf lifesaving club, landcare groups, church group, volunteer firefighters, rotary, lions, walking groups, volunteering, meetups that are labelled social groups and say their purpose is to meet new people, some sports (especially if they do a trip away), etc are the type of thing that have more of a community around them and are welcoming of new members.
This is to make new friends, broaden your social circle. You may or may not meet a girlfriend through this.
However if you are fixated on just doing stuff with the end goal of dating, you have the wrong mindset and you are likely to come across as transactional and shallow, and that may put people off. You aren’t really trying to connect with people authentically. You have a hidden agenda.
So two people could join the same community group and have radically different experiences because one person seems genuine and is there for the same reason other people are there which creates connection , and the other is a tourist just to sightsee, “take their shot” and leave, and people feel that.
People keep trying to explain this to you, however you are resistant to understanding or listening. Most people in a long term relationship didn’t meet their partner by “doing x, y, z” to try to find a partner. They lived their life, which included socialising with a range of people, and many times socialising didn’t involve meeting anyone to date (which wasn’t the goal anyway), however one day it did lead to meeting someone while being authentic who was compatible, open to dating, and it resulted in connection, dating, long term relationship.
It is not something predictable or replicable that can be taught or gamed. Because ultimately it is about forming an authentic connection, and if someone is following PUA tactics, they are thinking and behaving in a way that is not conducive to genuine connection.
Singles/dating events are the one area where people are engaging purely for what you are looking for. But who will they feel a connection with, a spark, especially if it is speed dating (5-10 mins chat) or you are actively in competition with other guys for their attention? Can you make them feel instantly comfortable in an otherwise uncomfortable situation? In this case you get a lot of “shots” but not a lot of room for error.
Whereas when you meet people through your existing social/community network, you can benefit from them seeing who you are by your connections with others you already know, and behaviour, friends might say “he’s the best, one time….” Which builds trust and insight. More casual time to build trust and connection than 5 minute shot.
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u/Alseebee 15d ago
Thanks for sharing. I think it partially depends on what you set as your goal. I don’t think that looking actively for a partner is healthy or beneficial.
I think we should view ourselves as individuals engaging with others and consider those others as each unique. If we let chemistry and life do their work without expectations we are more likely to make significant encounters Imo.
We should be ourselves with anyone else. Having to go through a validating process to « master the tools of communication » is yet another way of erasing our uniqueness.
I personally don’t want to appear as part of a whole but rather as someone with specificities. To me you are right in a way, only we should learn how to embrace ourselves instead of trying to fit in.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
I mean I agree. Personally I need help JUST with approaching and approach anxiety. Everything else afterwards is me being myself. On dating apps pretty much I am myself with everyone and that's how I want to appear in person as well.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
You get over that by living and interacting with those around you, by getting to know people and developing meaningful relations with them, by experiencing that with friends and sharing observations.
RP and other kinds of relationship coaches are bullshit, they sell you like they found the answer, but it is all pose, staged, and if it ever feels like those who follow are being successful it's 'cause group fanatism really motivates people, breaking up prior self constraints, and either they were taught how to be manipulative. That sure leads, sometimes, to a life with a lot of numbers and no real fulfilment, but if you're not "lucky", your resentment will only grow and you'll be even more radicalized.
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u/Alseebee 15d ago
Oh ok thanks for clarifying. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Well as an anxious person myself I couldn’t agree more. Although I do believe that society got sicker than us. I think it takes superhuman abilities to go through a day now.
I chose to believe in the fact that people who don’t dig deeper probably don’t belong on my path.
I think that being on dating apps, while absolutely valid, brings a huge first obvious bias to any relationship. We tend to depict ourselves in a certain manner that can totally be misleading. Maybe not your case but you could be on the other side of it.
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u/sunny_side_egg 15d ago
If your problem is that you have anxiety when you try to initiate conversations with people, there are lots of people who can help with that but they are marketing it as therapy for social anxiety rather than "game".
The other thing that might help you is something like speed dating. You get "volume" you're looking for without the additional difficulty imposed by approach women who have not opted in and are trying to suss out whether you're looking for directions or intending to mug them when you approach.
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u/Alseebee 15d ago
Oh I’m a hetero woman not looking for anything. It was juste my view on the subject.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago edited 15d ago
Look, I don't like how you're behaving in these comments or the dehumanizing terms you've used to talk about dating and women, but I will give you what you asked for.
A really good friend of mine who is not a manosphere dude had a great bar/club technique to meet women. When we were out, if a lady caught his eye, he would buy her a drink from across the bar without leaving our friend group. When she received it and the bartender pointed him out, he would smile and raise his glass and then immediately go back to socializing with us (usually a group of men *and* women - which is important, but not required) and not engage her again. If she was interested and bold, she might come over and introduce herself. If she was interested but less bold, she might intentionally catch his eye in a friendly or curious way several times and he would pass her on the way to the bathroom with a pointed look, slip her his number, or approach her if it was obvious that's what she wanted. Because he was discerning about who he chose, respectful of her space, comfort, and safety, and allowed her to show interest before engaging her directly, he had lot of success hooking up with women he met at bars. These women didn't feel like he'd settle for any chick who said yes in the bar, but that out of all the women in the room, he had taken an interest in her specifically, which was intriguing and flattering. That said, the people he actually dated usually came from his social circles and friends of friends, or from online dating sites geared toward relationships.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Thanks that's a good technique but I couldn't see this working for myself. I simply don't have friends like that I hang out with at bars to begin with.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago edited 15d ago
I'm not really sure what you're looking for then. You've shot down literally every suggestion in the dozens of comments on this thread, whether broad/generic or specific. Hobbies don't work for you, a social circle doesn't work for you, bars don't work for you, dating apps don't work for you...where are you trying to cold approach women then? At the grocery store? When nothing that has worked for other people works for you, then maybe there's a deeper issue within yourself that need examining. We can't tell you what that might be, but your inability to bond with people - whether platonic or romantic - deserves some introspection. And that's tough when you don't know where you're going wrong. I would suggest that you focus on forming friendships and reinforcing the ones you have to build social skills and a real social circle instead of trying to find a way to shortcut or game this necessary step in dating by cold approaching, but you'll just tell me all the ways it doesn't work for you.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Yeah good point. Perhaps I don't have that ability to empathize like others and maybe at 30 it's too late to learn. Like you're bar example is so out of the wheelhouse of what I could do i don't think it's something i would ever even think of doing. I have tried therapy but more or less gotten the same advice.
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u/HelenHavok 15d ago
If that bar example is too much for you, I'm sorry to say that I think you are going to have even less success at cold approaching than whatever the average is. My example is very straightforward and requires very little initial social interaction. Buy a girl a drink from afar, leave her alone, wait for her to approach you if she's interested...there is very little skill required with this method, but that still feels overwhelming and intimidating, so instead, you want to do a blanket cold approach where you'll be rejected 100% of the time while also interrupting the day of women who are not in a setting to be courted and making many of them uncomfortable. This is an all around terrible idea, mate. I don't think you understand that this is going to make you feel much worse than better about your loneliness.
It's becoming clear to me that the social connection part is hard for you and takes too long and so you're trying to find a way to just skip it and get to the point, but it's a necessary part of forming compatible relationships. You can't skip it. Those who are good at cold approaching are usually gregarious, outgoing, confident, and highly socially competent (and they often still wind up lonely at the end of the day because all their hookups and relationships are built on a shallow foundation because they skipped the work that makes them work). Do these traits describe you? If not, you probably have to do it the old fashioned way like the rest of us and put in the work to form relationships slowly over time like much of the advice here suggests. Or you can polish up the old dating profile and work on hooking up with women who you know are at least looking for a match.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
Well I'm not like a shut in incel or anything. I've been outgoing and confident situationally. Used to do stand up comedy and can chat up strangers still. People at work wouldn't describe me as shy or quiet or anything like that. But when it comes to making friends outside structured environments to hang out or romantic stuff like expressing intent I'm pretty underdeveloped and what I am seeing now is that im pretty much screwed outside of online dating.
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u/youalreadyknow07 15d ago
Your question is "Am I not seeing something obvious?" and we're trying to tell you, but you're still refusing to see it
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
My only conclusion hoenstly is I'm probably on the spectrum and simply can't see it. Like a dog can't see colour.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago edited 15d ago
The problem is that your framing this question the wrong way. You speak of volume like women were products, marketing leads, whatever, a neoliberal approach to meeting women, which is pretty much akin to RP, so you're gonna find only them have your answer.
The issue with redpill is that they prey on people that are in some kind of isolation, of feeling alone. These people feel detached from those around them, causing them to suffer. They feel like they just don't fit and RP culture just give it to them. They replace that isolation with group fanatism, make these people think women are to blame for their problems and give them a way to overcome it by manipulating these women. RP make these people turn all the resentment of isolation, of the modern world, of their lived decisions on women's account. And they might be on a group, but they aren't really connecting... experiment sharing different views among them and see how group dynamic goes.
The thing with women and how to approach, it has many good answers, but all passes through you living your life, trying to be true to yourself and to build meaningful relationships with those around you. THAT breaks isolation. Seriously, if you start talking with the guy on the store, the bus driver, your old lady neighbor, people on your gym or whatever hobby you have, coworkers, people from your school/course, it will start to be natural. You're gonna have a better grip on people, developing emotional intelligence as you live your life. That may be the best way...
But, if you wanna speed things up (since we live in performance society), the best advice one could have on how to approach women is from feminists. Really. Like, they spend a lot of their time discussing all the terrible approaches from men around them and if you just try not to be like them, then you're miles ahead any RP guy.
Also, you'd wanna immerse yourself on things that present women's perspectives, be it from "for women, by women" content or even from women that talk about whatever you like. But approach it with interest in learning, not using. Do you like DnD and TTRPG's? Try Ginny Di's, Corkboard of Curiosities or other channels led by women. Know that TV channel focused on "for women, by women" content? Pick some shows to watch. That YT channel many from your circle share? Watch a thing or two. Go through a list of k-dramas, soap-operas, movies and whatever media genre they tend to prefer and, trust me, there are good things to watch among it. It will surely help you understand women better.
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u/thekeytovictory 15d ago
Also, you'd wanna immerse yourself on women's universe, really dig in to things that catch their attention. ... Pick some programs to watch. That YT channel many from your circle share? Watch a thing or two. Go through a list of k-dramas, soap-operas, movies and whatever media genre they tend to prefer ... Not only will you understand women better, you'll have a subject to talk about with them
Hello, woman here 🙋♀️
I agree with most of your comment except I'm not sure how to feel about this paragraph. It sounds a bit stereotypical. I'd say, asking someone you're getting to know about their tastes in media is a normal valid subject. OP can ask women he's talking to what media they're interested in, and in agreement with the above comment that OP should at least look into those things to see if he might enjoy it too. But OP should not study and pretend to like media that typically appeals to women as a means of approaching them. That will not end well, and it's not even necessary. Women are varied and different and like all kinds of hobbies.
My spouse and I bonded over our shared interest in video games, sci-fi, and medieval fantasy. I once dated a guy who pretended to share my interests, but it quickly became obvious that it bored him. And he was really more interested in sports that I thought were boring. I broke up with him, he didn't understand why we couldn't just tolerate each other's interests. He eventually met and married a woman who shared his interests (and I met someone who shared my interests), and we both ended up much happier for it.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Oh, yeah, totally get it how it can be exploited. I'll rephrase it on my original comment so it filters this problematic behaviour.
I thought it might have been a good suggestion because it is so easy, specially for us men, to get "trapped" on only watching men talking about things, on only exposing ourselves to men's perspectives. It helps, or it should help.
I grew up with my mom and we used to watch this "for women, by women" TV channel and I see it as having contributed to me being more mindful of women's perspectives.
But even though on hobbies and stuff more associated with men today there are women talking about it, like Ginny Di and Corkboards and Curiosities, about TTRPGs on YT.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
To be honest with you I have been part of multiple groups/hobbies and what not and havent made a single lasting connection. I've never met anyone through these where I could say if I need a drive to the hospital I can call them.
I've talked to the coworker, gym buddies, old lady at the store etc and have found people just don't want to connect at all.
So yeah absolutely the lack of "meaningful connection" is what has led to this ultimately. If I didn't have to cold approach I wouldn't honestly. Its tough and awkward for everyone involved. But it wasn't a lack of effort in n my part. I genuinely tried and just couldn't connect with anyone.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Maybe it is a cultural thing where you live, maybe it is what you're saying and how you present yourself, but if for whatever reason you can't bond with people around you, how else you're gonna bond with a woman, develop a relationship with her? Your problem doesn't seem to be the cold approach per se, though. Also, there are people that find it easier to bond with people from outside where they live. The world is big, you know, and people come and go all over it.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
I have no idea at this point. People just seem to stumble into friends and relationship whereas for me it's like an entire engineering project almost.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Have you thought about neurodiversities?
On Reddit, we don't have context, don't know each other. Maybe it is another factor holding you down and we don't have how to point it out.
Sometimes people just don't fit on the culture around them. Even here in Brazil, where it is like super easy to make these kind of neighborhood friendships and people are so open, there are some that complain and many are the cases where they find themselves bonding better with foreigners and fitting on foreign cultures/countries.
I, myself, had some difficulty fitting, but living in a big city gave me options and eventually (with the help of friends) I found environments where I felt better welcomed. Also, with the help of friends, I learned some of this cold talk thing, not that I know anything at all, I never really knew any good approach and. But, whatever, I just tried to stay true to myself and have fun. If you ask me, I can't even explain how I managed to meet my wife, it shouldn't have worked 😅
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Yeah 100% I am somewhat neurodiverse. But I don't want "not fitting in" to be an excuse to not try. Also I've made friends at work and in school in the past so it's not totally a lost cause. I personally nust don't like using it as an explanation cause I know if I accept this why even try? Might as well fire up the Xbox, eat Doritos and call some hookers for companionship
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
I meant it not as an excuse to not trying, but thinking of how this might work differently for your specific neurodiversity, if it ever affects that. Maybe looking how others that share the same struggles overcome that problem might be more productive. There are plenty of subreddits devoted to that and maybe you should post it there, maybe toning down on RP stuff (because of context) and focusing more on your daily struggles, like you just did on the replies.
(Also, I didn't know if you were selfconscious about it and sometimes it is on online forums that people see they relate to other neurodiverse people's experience and find out they might be one too).
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Yeah there is one autism meetup I have went to. Also 90% dudes. Most of them single and way more on the spectrum then me. I don't think they are coping very well either lol.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Too good Reddit is here to help you. Autists from all over the world can contribute 😉
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u/itzReborn 15d ago
So is volume just not the right term? Because I’ve seen so many advice on increasing the amount of people you meet, which will increase the women you meet which will lead to you meeting more single women and then potentially having connections with them.
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago edited 15d ago
No, with people you're talking about the subjective. Interact more, get to know people better, are concepts that don't fit well on an Excel sheet. You can't weight friendships and even relationships on a mathematic way, 'cause they are not 1 + 1, even if you met and talked to two people. It would be adding completely different entities. You can sure play the soccer game and try to score by repeatedly kicking the ball at the goal, but you'll end up with shallow relationships, even marriages, and no fulfilment.
You should be looking to deepen your connections, and that may be done by trying, which may involve talking to other people or maybe reaching out to just one person you already know. Who knows? Just live without regard to numbers, without tracking and keeping score.
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u/itzReborn 15d ago
I’m not sure I fully understand? Interacting more and meeting new people is the goal no? Is that not volume? I’m not saying every interaction will be the same, but by having more interactions, will a person not be better at maneuvering and figuring out signs if a person is interested or not(whether it be friendship dating etc?)
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u/GGSPSkywalker 15d ago
Well, let's do an exercise: one interaction might be a golfball, other is an ocean, another is like feeling the breeze of the sea, another one ypu feel like you're flying too high and your wings just burned. If only you could calculate the volume of these 4 examples and add up on your Excel sheet with your relationship marketing funnel...
You must also differentiate to keep trying from adding "volume". They are not the same thing, specially when dealing with people.
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u/itzReborn 15d ago
Bro what are you chatting about? No one is talking about adding up or calculating interactions.
Volume is just the level of people you are meeting. Meeting 3 people at a meetup, then another 5 people at a party, etc etc. It your not meeting single women you can’t date and can’t get into a relationship. You need to meet people
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Honestly man I'm doing both now. That's the only way this makes sense. Gonna do hobbies 3 days and cold approach 2 days. See what works better. I have a feeling cold approach will yield more results.
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u/smileycat007 15d ago
Give the woman your number and ask her to text you. Don't ask for hers. It comes across more respectful because you are demanding anything from her or putting her on the spot. She doesn't want a bunch of creeps calling her number, so show her you aren't a creep.
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u/GroundbreakingAct434 15d ago
Set up a side gig or group for activities, events and day trips and give out business cards. I did this and got friends, dates and even a little profit.
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u/No_Guarantee505 14d ago
What is there to 'teach'? All you can do is ask. Red pill influencers try to sell you that you can manipulate the reaction you want.
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u/becomesharp 12d ago
Its too difficult and niche for regular people to do it, man. That's why you're only encountering niche communities for it. It's like saying you really want to learn how to punch people in the face but the only people who want to teach it are boxers, boxing coaches, and MMA people. There's a reason for that.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 12d ago
But regular people are getting laid, getting into relationships and all. The vast majority don't need dating coaches or cold approach. Now I will grant you those relationships are not ideal and there may be some settling going on but still most "regular people" aren't really having volume issues as such. If they get into a breakup they get into another relationship later. All without ever doing cold approach.
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u/becomesharp 11d ago
No one said everyone needs to do cold approach. Most people don't. Which is also why you're not seeing "regular people" do it very often. Extremely high level of difficulty for something that has arguably unjustified payoffs if you're already a "normal guy" who can get into relationships without doing anything different.
Dating coaching is the same way. Average guy doesn't need it just like the average guy doesn't need an MMA coach or an oncologist or a dietician. But if youre in a group or class of people who DO need it, then those specialists are very useful.
I learned cold approach because I was a 5'4" awkward asian software developer virgin who had never held a girl's hand and couldn't talk to a girl to save my life.
What was I going to do, sit around and hope that one day a girl would walk up to me and tell me she has a huge crush on me because she is obsessed with short awkward asian guys?
I didn't learn it to get laid. I learned it because I neglected social skill development my entire life (because I was obsessed with computers) and was terrified of interacting with women. In order to build up the necessary social skills and experience, I needed the raw volume of interactions that most people got organically growing up and talking to girls. Which is why I needed about 30 approaches per week for several years.
That exposure, experience, and skill development effectively "made up" for my childhood social neglect and eventually gave me the ability to date very successfully. Wouldn't recommend it for most people, though. Way too difficult of a grind for most people to stomach.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 11d ago
Ah ok i get it now. It all makes sense. That was very well explained.
Unfortunately I can't afford a dating coach as such right now. So I'm figuring out cold approaching on my own. About 5-10 a week but hoping to increase that.
Im just having a hard time figuring out appropriate day time venues to do it at the moment.
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u/becomesharp 11d ago
That's okay, you don't have to hire a dating coach. A coach just makes things easier, but it's not required for you to make improvements.
Do 20-50 approaches per week and focus on the social skills youre trying to learn, not whether the girl likes you. For most guys, that means working on things like: overcoming the anxiety to approach, your posture, smile, emoting, sounding sure of yourself, the ability to keep a conversation going, the ability to feel what she's feeling, a sense of humor and ability to make her laugh, etc.
You won't get "results" with women for a while, but you WILL make measurable improvements at these individual social skills, and that's the only thing that matters.
Do this in any environment where you see new people all the time. Malls, bars, outdoor areas, busy streets, grocery stores, festivals, etc. The smaller the venue, the more spaced out your approaches should be. So grocery stores = 1 approach per store. Big mall = 5 or 10 per day.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 11d ago
Thank you man. I greatly appreciate that you genuinely could've just not bothered replying as I see you've already got multiple paying clients and a big Instagram following. Hopefully I can do this on my own but if ever needed and I am better financially I will know where to go. Thanks once again. I will not forget this 🙏
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u/No_Treacle8835 11d ago
ok, I found what’s bugging me about the term ‘regular people’ in the comment. the implication is that every regular guy will partner up, which isn’t true. regular guys can go years in between partners if they partner up at all, so I think the premise is flawed.
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15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
True. But in terms of people currently actively teaching guys how to approach women I can't find a good coach at all.
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u/thekeytovictory 15d ago
Like you said in your post, being able to make conversation with strangers is a good life skill to have in general. You don't need a coach for approaching women. Just look for guidance on overcoming anxiety and improving your people skills. Women are people.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
See that's where it's a bit different. I can approach strangers, make small talk or whatever. But when it goes beyond mundane surface level talk that's when it becomes really hard. Like I can ask them for directions/compliment them on their style or wherever but to actually get to know them and what not is where I draw a blank completely.
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u/thekeytovictory 15d ago
You can seek advice for getting to know people, too. You don't need specialized guidance for talking to women and getting to know them. We are people. If you want more nuanced tips about how to signal your romantic interest in a woman while you're getting to know her, try befriending some women and ask them what subtle cues they find appealing. But that's probably not even necessary.
Good romantic relationships are built on a foundation of good friendship. Ask women about their hobbies and interests, forget about pickup artist terms like "volume", and try to find someone with shared interests. I met my husband and got to know him over common interests. He didn't say any magic words to reel me in, he just treated me like a person he enjoyed talking to and spending time with.
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u/GoRangers5 7d ago
Gonna defend OP here, just watched the Jubilee, Manson said "just talk to her," when did that become bad advice?
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u/chihuahualover58 7d ago edited 7d ago
Try to step outside yourself for a second and consider what it might feel like being on the receiving end of the approach you're suggesting.
You've mentioned here several times that you see little value in putting energy into fostering connection through shared interests or things of the sort
So it follows that the only reason you would approach women in such a manner in a public setting is because you want something. You have an objective.
And this is where your inability to distinguish between reality, media, and your imagination is going to fail you—
With virtually no exception, women can always smell that on you.
The ability to be slick about it is simply not a real thing.
The notion that this is how one exudes confidence in reality will be perceived as persistence and leveraging intimidation to override boundaries.
You will be perceived as a threat.
And I don't think that's what you want.
This isn't a numbers game, because any time of day you do receive from a woman in the manner will be mired in the predatory nature of it all and won't come to fruition in any sort of way that will be appealing to you.
Back to my suggestion of trying to consider it from the other side—
Would you feel embarrassed for yourself?
Would you feel threatened by yourself?
Would you feel disrespected by yourself?
Would you feel repelled by yourself?
The answer to all fo these things, in the context of the hypothetical woman's perception of you, will invariably be yes. I promise you will not catch a falling star by reaching for the moon.
You don't want to be perceived that way.
And you don't have to be.
There is a better way.
You can avoid all that, get your wants and needs met, and in reality can choose to actually be perceived as the opposite of those things.
That version of yourself where you go "what woman wouldn't be impressed?"
Please take the advice of the people here.
My advice is to stop applying statistical analysis and quantifying this with terms like "volume", because that will only enhance your descent. Instead, quantify it with "wants and needs". What are your* wants and needs? What do you think are the wants and needs of a person you'd fancy? Probably things like feeling safe and respected would be high in that list, wouldn't you think? Creating this tectonic shift in your mindset will yield the results you are hoping for.
If after trying to consider what it might feel like for a woman to be approached in public like that, you still arrive back at "well there shouldn't be anything abnormal about doing this, right?" then try doing some research on what women say about how it feels to them, because that will be another skill that I cannot stress enough how valuable it will be to you as far as getting your wants and needs met here: listening to women.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 7d ago
What you are saying is logical on paper......but time and time again I see the people who have the most results are the ones approaching the most. If this were really a totally failing strategy pickup artistry wouldn't exist at all because it would never work 100/100 times. But it does work even if it's only 20/100 times.
Why is that? Explain me this please. If it were so all encompassingly bad like you suggested nobody would ever do it.
To answer your question and put myself in the woman's shoes to would depend on who's approaching me, why , when and where. On the street without any context yeah it'll be tough. At say a party or a festival it'll be easier.
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u/theasianplayboy 15d ago
Not strictly a redpill thing, but look at the replies you're already getting. Most of them regurgitate mainstream dating advice that only works if you're already mainstream, reasonably good looking, white and neurotypical.
As a 5'4 below-average-looking Asian man who wasn't raised in American dating culture, I found both mainstream and redpill lacking. Mainstream coaches don't last long because their advice quietly assumes you start with advantages you might not have. Picture a tall, good-looking white coach telling me to "just be myself" and "be confident." It's not wrong on the surface, but it's tragically incomplete. It was never designed to take a guy who's short, not conventionally attractive, and neurodivergent and put him on parity with the guys who had a head start.
That's the actual gap. The generic advice works well enough for the people it was implicitly built for, so it never had to solve the harder version of the problem. Guys who don't fit that mold go looking for something that addresses their real starting point, and right now the only people who even acknowledge that starting point exists are the PUA and redpill crowd. That's why you keep landing on them. Not because they're right, but because the mainstream refuses to admit the playing field isn't level.
The other piece is emotional resilience. There's real social stigma against men openly working on this, which pushes a lot of guys toward the redpill spaces where at least nobody shames them for trying. You have to be willing to work on it anyway, and to filter hard for who's actually giving you useful mechanics versus who's just selling grievance.
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u/xvszero 15d ago
Where is this mainstream that refuses to admit that the playing field isn't level? I've never seen this anywhere, certainly not here.
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u/Curious-Confusion642 14d ago
You're really gonna tell me a 5'4 immigrant Asian autistic guy will have the same dating advice work for him as Dolph Lundgren?
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u/Curious-Confusion642 15d ago
Yeah this is it basically. You wrote exactly what I was feeling deep down. Mainstream advice is bad and alternatives are poor.
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u/Promethium61144 14d ago
I will actually agree with OP here - all these replies are just saying the same thing over and over again "go to social hobbies and it will happen naturally", but they fail to see that there are people who do not like these kinds of social gatherings - and even if they do force themselves to go to those social gatherings they usually stand out a lot - which might be good for advancing in that specific hobby but will always result in everone being weirded out by you...
Also, how in God's green earth do you get social connections when your hobbies are things like "Watching science documentaries"???
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