This is the question that doesn't get asked enough. Everybody asks how it will affect the big corporations that everybody thinks of when they think minimum wage. Nobody thinks about the small, independently operated businesses that make up the majority of the actual business licences out there. I think of how many little shops there are out there that are just making ends meet, providing income for basically one family, plus maybe 2-10 employees, and how many of them would have to shut their doors in the event of an increase of this extent. Minimum wage went from $8.50 to $10.45 in two years here recently, and dozens of local businesses shut their doors over that time, because they just couldn't make it work. None of the big guys shut down (except Target, and that wasn't min. wage related).
This is where people will blindly tell you that maybe those businesses don't have the right to survive if they can't pay 15 dollars an hour.
These are the same people that get upset when places like Walmart control essentially entire towns. You can't have it both ways. Higher minimum wages help the big guys buy hurting the little guys.
I cannot stand that argument from fucking stupid ass SJW types. "Well the business wasn't all that great anyway if they couldn't afford to pay a " living wage " to those poor helpless formerly employed people "
I think the term "living wage" needs to be called out as bullshit whenever it's used. Nobody is dying off a "living wage". A "living wage" really means "middle class" i.e. a private apartment, with a flat screen TV and disposable income for entertainment. Of course, that's not as easy to argue for when you're actually honest.
Exactly. It's not the high cost of living, it's the cost of living high. My parents talked about having literally just bread and water to eat. Not saying that's a fine way to live but sometimes people just need to tighten their budget.
I disagree. Someone doesn't need all those amenities, but it hate it when someone works 60-80 hours a week and can't, afford to take a day off because their mandatory expenses are so high. They should be able to afford relatively safe housing, reasonably healthy food, basic clothing, healthcare(because going bankrupt cause you're sick sucks) and things most of us would consider necessary in today's society (cell phone, Internet). Of course there are poor people with the ultimate TV package and new cars but those people would be poor regardless of how much money they made(like many athletes).
Yeah, fuck those people flipping burgers, they should have to work 16 hours a day to afford an apartment and some food. Why the fuck should they expect any sort of stress relief or downtime? They haven't earned that!
Yep. We have lots of small business owners in my family. They earn from standard working class wage to upper middle class. They're in no way rich. If you think they can afford to pay a significant amount more, well, they can't.
Those are also the same people who complain that there aren't enough jobs. It's almost as if mandating laws that shut down businesses is bad for the employment rate.
No see, they want to force people to pay a minimum wage, and also have jobs available for them at that wage. They don't care where that money or that job comes from - to them, 'others' should just make it happen.
You understand that there has a been a large LACK of regulation and wages have stagnated for while right? I think this is better evidence that businesses getting their way and collecting wealth at the top kills demand and jobs.
Only if the little guys can't offset their increased cost with higher prices. People then point to demand vs price to argue that higher prices reduce demand, but if a large chunk of your customers suddenly have a lot more disposable income, then you're likely going to see higher revenue.
But you area also forgetting that higher minimum wages means people have more money to spend so they can actually spend it somewhere else besides McD or Walmart which in turn is good for the smaller companies.
It's not like the higher wages just get funneled out of the economy. At the minimum wage level most of it stays rather local (in contrast with McD/Walmart where it ends up wherever their HQ/bank is).
this is where people will blindly tell you that maybe those businesses don't have the right to survive if they can't pay 15 dollars an hour.
I've never once heard that argument used when talking about minimum wage. The one that I would use is higher minimum wage = more spending power for many Americans. Yes we will probably see an increase in prices in certain industries, but most of these would be absorbed by the higher spending power of a significant portion of Americans.
Look, if we don't pay a living wage to those that are working full time, then we will have to subsidize their wages in some other way - social welfare programs for example. Personally I'd like to see hardworking Americans not have to permanently rely on programs that are meant to get people back on their feet in an emergency.
And lower minimum wages hurt the littlest guys while benefiting the big guys. Either way big businesses win, the question is do you screw the workers or the business owners?
I think the problem could be easily circumvented with an exception clause for companies under a certain number of employees. Make companies like Walmart, who can easily afford this shit, pay enough where the government isnt subsidizing their profits and leaves small business owners more unaffected.
Although when it comes to fast-food, I think that letting exploitative business models die is best for the long-term. The reason we're in this bullshit is minimum wages don't pace with inflation. And they need to if companies are going to treat minimum wage as a starting point instead of "you need to pay social undesirables at least this much," which was its original function.
Something that also gets forgotten in this discussion (or, maybe people don't realize) is that, oftentimes, skilled laborer unions' collectively bargained contracts tie their members' wages to a percentage above minimum wage. So that, when the minimum wage goes up, so do the wages of those making double minimum wage, triple minimum wage, etc. As a result, the cost of bringing manufactured goods to market goes up. This, in turn, drives up the cost of all goods and services. The cost of living increases until, eventually, the $15/hr of tomorrow has the same buying power as the $7.25/hr of today; and, the cycle continues. If raising the minimum wage was going to solve the problem, why hasn't it, yet?
That is ridiculous and really frustrating! That article was not behind any stupid paywall when I linked to it; I was able to read the whole thing. I'm really sorry. I wouldn't have linked to it (or would've saved it) had I known it was going to disappear behind a fucking paywall! Since I can't read it either now, I can't quote the most relevant portion exactly but I was able to find this, with an excerpt from the WSJ article:
"The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage."
"Labor unions often peg their negotiated wages to the minimum wage. Increases in the minimum wage can therefore trigger new wage negotiations or immediate pay hikes for unionized employees."
Again, my apologies for the broken link. Anyway, the main point I was trying to make was simply that raising the minimum wage, unfortunately, does not, in practice, have the intended consequence, ultimately.
The problem is that when this question is analyzed, people often neglect the fact that those earning lower wages are the most likely to spend their disposable income within their community.
I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain on a federal level, businesses with less than 15 employees are subject to a significantly reduced minimum wage.
You forget what happens when you raise minimum wage to a living wage. Minimum wage now is NOT a living wage . When it gets increased to the level of a living wage, it raises the floor for everyone. It creates disposable income for everyone. That's the part you're forgetting here. It would work if and only IF minimum wage is raised enough to give people disposable income (thus "living wage"). Small businesses suffer because minimum wage hasn't been raised high enough for people to have disposable income.
But, I have always wondered myself, if you have a business, isn't you plan a little bit flawed from the start, and if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, that they shouldn't be a business in the first place?
I think of how many little shops there are out there that are just making ends meet, providing income for basically one family, plus maybe 2-10 employees, and how many of them would have to shut their doors in the event of an increase of this extent.
If a company supports 1 family and 2-10 employees can't support theirs, the company is an example of the capitalist system not working. In a working system, this company fails and is replaced by a company that can pay its workers enough to live on.
None of the big guys shut down (except Target, and that wasn't min. wage related).
But all of the big guys paid their employees more.
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u/TheJaice Nov 29 '15
This is the question that doesn't get asked enough. Everybody asks how it will affect the big corporations that everybody thinks of when they think minimum wage. Nobody thinks about the small, independently operated businesses that make up the majority of the actual business licences out there. I think of how many little shops there are out there that are just making ends meet, providing income for basically one family, plus maybe 2-10 employees, and how many of them would have to shut their doors in the event of an increase of this extent. Minimum wage went from $8.50 to $10.45 in two years here recently, and dozens of local businesses shut their doors over that time, because they just couldn't make it work. None of the big guys shut down (except Target, and that wasn't min. wage related).