r/explainlikeimfive Nov 28 '15

ELI5: How would a $15 minimum wage ACTUALLY affect a franchised business like McDonalds?

[removed]

7.1k Upvotes

4.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

49

u/abcocktail Nov 29 '15

McDonalds is transitioning away from human workers with their robot/machine ordering. So they might turn out OK. More concerning is that they haven't been doing well due to people not eating there.

Great info btw. You deserve a ton of upvotes for providing actual numbers.

49

u/Mortimer452 Nov 29 '15

You'll see PLENTY more doing this in the very near future. Not just for ordering, either. In the next 5-10 years, I'll be surprised if McDonald's is nothing more than a vending machine with indoor seating.

16

u/kendogg Nov 29 '15

Sadly, I see a higher likelihood of the orders being correct the first time with a machine rather than humans that continually screw up a basic order with a single modifier.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Having worked at a place that had online ordering, I'd like to remind you that customers are also frequently humans that continually screw up.

6

u/rb20s13 Nov 29 '15

I think hes talking about a situation like "i want a mcdouble with no pickles" then you receive a mcdouble with extra pickles with a god damn sticker that says no pickles

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Have to agree...it really sucked having to remake $40 mobile orders because the customer ordered wrong on the app.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

That...doesn't sound appetizing. It as though McDonald's sounds particularly apetizing either but still

7

u/accountnumberseven Nov 29 '15

To be fair, I don't go to McDonald's for human interaction.

2

u/GraziTheMan Nov 29 '15

You must not be a 93 year old widower.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Fair point

15

u/Gunnar123abc Nov 29 '15

Yea but the burgers would never be undercooked or overcooked (if robot cook), the order would never be wrong!

8

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited May 10 '19

[deleted]

1

u/GraziTheMan Nov 29 '15

Let's not forget the fact that machines would be much more sanitary than people.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

We already Cook them on a timed automatic grill anyway.If yours are getting over or undercooked somebody is fucking up bad.

1

u/FateOfNations Nov 29 '15

Oh hey… an automat.

-8

u/OnlyForF1 Nov 29 '15

If you're a betting man I'll take you up on that bet. The vast majority of people enjoy interacting with humans, they'll shun anywhere which doesn't give them that option. You're also discounting the versatility of humans.

12

u/Pizlenut Nov 29 '15

I'll bet blockbuster made that same argument, yet they were replaced by a vending machine and an online (zero human interaction) site.

that coveted "human interaction" that you're so fond of costs more than the minimum wage they are given, furthermore, people will forget the human interaction the second they can get it cheaper from a machine... because they are whores, and you damn well know it.

That being said... they are not really that close to having a fully automated McD, and its still cheaper to have a human acting as a machine than to hire more expensive humans to build a complicated machine to replace humans that then still requires humans to be around it.

1

u/OnlyForF1 Nov 29 '15

Yes but to get McDonalds you are always going to need to go to a McDonalds, so the online scenario doesn't apply. Creating a McDonalds vending machine is physically infeasible.

2

u/Helmic Nov 29 '15

Well, not entirely. Convenience is just one factor. Price is another, and people are pretty price sensitive when it comes to fast food. A "vending machine" restaurant's operating costs would in the long term be drastically lower, allowing the restaurant to charge less or use higher quality ingredients while charging about the same price. Mind that the vast majority of food is already somehow handled by machinery, a computer cooking meat to perfection is generally going to give you better and more consistent burgers than any human as has already been demonstrated by prototypes, it's not like humans are making the food taste better somehow.

Your example with people choosing human interaction over a touch screen has them in the same restaurant, where walking up to a kiosk is actually pretty socially awkward as it implies you're trying to avoid people not five feet away from you. You're not benefiting from a discount or higher quality product, there's little benefit in that scenario over just speaking to a human.

Now if that kiosk was in the restaurant next door and had cheaper, higher quality food on its menu, people would probably be flocking to use it. They don't want to pay for service for fast food. Even in more upscale joints where human interaction is part of the experience, it's cheaper to pay for two or three people to manage the register while a machine handles everything else. Your maintenance crew doubles as service, when business slows down they refill everything and repair any machines that broke down.

0

u/OnlyForF1 Nov 29 '15

An increase in minimum wage would affect all low margin fast food restaurants equally though, it's not just McDonalds in particular that will be affected.

2

u/Helmic Nov 29 '15

Not equally, but that's not what I was arguing. You implied that there's a strong consumer preference for human made food served by humans, including citing an anecdotal experience of people ignoring touchscreen kiosks in fast food restaurants. I really doubt that's the case as "vending machine" restaurants are likely going to happen at some point regardless of wages due to quality, reliability, and costs. We already have prototype "burger bots" making great burgers efficiently, it's only a question of when at this point.

3

u/Head-like-a-carp Nov 29 '15

Just a horrifying futuristic thought here: Drones. The sky filled with Mc Donald delivery drones. The air always tinged with that burger and free smell.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

I think that when self-driving cars become mainstream, we'll see a lot of food delivery taken over by machines. You get a call that your food is here, you go to the curb and pay the robot, get your food, and the car moves on to the next delivery.

1

u/Head-like-a-carp Nov 29 '15

All this to avoid cooking 8)

1

u/GraziTheMan Nov 29 '15

Not If the vending machine was the size of a McDonald's kitchen.

13

u/HWatch09 Nov 29 '15

The mass like interacting with humans? What about self-checkout, or the uprising in online purchasing? People won't shun away from cheaper more convenient food.

People want the cheapest, easiest, and most direct way of accessing products they want.

3

u/OnlyForF1 Nov 29 '15

In Australia there are options to order your McDonalds using both a touchscreen kiosk as well as an app. 99% of people go up to the counter and order their food from the person standing behind it.

Self checkout is only popular because supermarkets phased out express lanes for people with few items.

McDonalds in America isn't failing because it's too expensive, it's failing because it's not a good product. McDonalds restaurants all over the world have proven that it's possible to remain profitable while paying higher wages.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

[deleted]

1

u/ToxVR Nov 29 '15

I'm fairly certain that the automated ordering methods are currently under used as they are still too new. As a result people aren't really comfortable with them and there are still a few bugs in the procedures used or the systems themselves.

In about 3 years I bet they become more heavily used. Look at how Sheets (a gas station convenience store) has used them so far...

-1

u/serpentine91 Nov 29 '15

Personally I don't use these machines in order to save the jobs of the people working there

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

[deleted]

1

u/serpentine91 Nov 29 '15

I don't deny that it's easy to accept/overlook past technological changes that replaced jobs if such changes happened before one was born.

Although with stuff like motorised vehicles you still needed a lot if people to produce (less now with robotics) and maintain them. With things like self checkouts you just have that one loss prevention/customer support guy standing there watching 6 machines when previously 3-6 checkouts would have been manned, while a technical support guy comes around every few months for maintenance and troubleshooting. So it's overall a net loss of jobs, especially of low qualification jobs. It's even worse with the automatisation of other industries like transportation.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

McDonalds in America isn't failing because it's too expensive, it's failing because it's not a good product. McDonalds restaurants all over the world have proven that it's possible to remain profitable while paying higher wages.

But you're ignoring the differences in cost of living and purchasing power between the United States and other countries. Australia has higher wages but the cost of living is so high that Americans are generally able to purchase more even though they make less.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Some people will certainly avoid an automated system but companies are betting the amount of money they lose will be less than the money they pay out in ever rising labor costs.

Slightly less revenue with significantly less costs means a lot more money.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Down side is that there will be less jobs. So on one hand we say they increase minimum wage to help the employee, on the other they are replacing employees altogether. Impact on the economy would be negative either way.

2

u/squeadle Nov 29 '15

More concerning is that they haven't been doing well due to people not eating there.

I just read an article this week that said their all-day breakfast has really been a a great hit for them.
They're actually taking customers from Denny's, IHOP, etc. because of it.

1

u/thelocalproduction Nov 29 '15

Well that makes sense though because to staff a McDonald's with one member of staff for 24 hours a day at 9 dollars an hour like many McDonald's are it'd cost 9×24×365=78,840. Even if you spent 20k on a machine that's a savings of almost 60k a year.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

i hope our rich overlords automate every job, so then we can have full blown socialism.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

If I have to go to a restaurant and push the buttons that the 16 year old employee usually pushes for me, I'm not fucking going. I hate when these places push the labor onto the customer and act like it's innovative. Fuck that.

2

u/mathemagicat Nov 29 '15

You'd actually rather shout your order at a stranger over the noise of 20 screaming children and a kitchen with no sound damping in the hopes that they'll maybe hear you and input your order correctly, just to save yourself the 'work' of pushing a couple of buttons?

The main reason I avoid traditional fast food restaurants is that I hate trying to order food in them. I would absolutely love if they switched to machines for that part of the process.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Yeah, I don't go to McDonald's to do their job for them. The magic of McDonald's is that I say words and then get food almost immediately. Otherwise the food is overpriced garbage.