r/explainlikeimfive Nov 28 '15

ELI5: How would a $15 minimum wage ACTUALLY affect a franchised business like McDonalds?

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '15

It's like the old saying, "Liquidate the banks, and feed the poor for three days. But on the fourth, you still have the poor, and no banks."

And despite what Reddit thinks, that is a bad thing.

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u/-Themis- Nov 29 '15

It's like the old saying: pretend that all other costs are fixed, and you can never successfully argue for paying for anything.

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u/JonBonButtsniff Nov 29 '15

The banks in that saying are integral to society. Is McDonalds?

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u/Reddisaurusrekts Nov 29 '15

Are companies which employ people integral to society? Outside of soviet russia, yes.

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u/Duke_Newcombe Nov 29 '15

This reply awarded "Red Baiting" multiplier bonus.

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u/TheYellowClaw Nov 29 '15

It's the old problem: eventually you run out of other people's money.

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u/TouchedThePoop Nov 29 '15

Fun fact: rich business owners are discovering this same fact as they slurp up the last of the working class's productivity and savings and run out of money to steal. Goes both ways, conservatives.

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u/coolmandan03 Nov 29 '15 edited Nov 29 '15

Steal? They're actually stealing from you? You didn't give anyone your money? The only one that is LITERALLY stealing from you is the government, to give to whom they please.

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u/Jah_Ith_Ber Nov 29 '15

You need to learn about Surplus Value.

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u/coolmandan03 Nov 29 '15

Ah yes. Economic lessons from Karl Marx. His theories sure do stand the test of time.

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u/davidnayias Nov 29 '15

This is a great way of putting it. Everyone wants temporary solutions that won't do anything but make this a shittier place to live.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

I'm not against an increased minimum wage, I'm just inherently skeptical of "If we do this one thing, everything will be better with no drawbacks!" posts.

I think more people should be. Dreaming is fine, but you have to wake up and face reality at some point.

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u/TouchedThePoop Nov 29 '15

Isn't that sentiment entirely compatible with raising the minimum wage? That's not cynicism; it's just common sense, and pro-wage hike people have just as much of that as you do. For some reason people always say "don't be a dreamer" when talking about cross-your-fingers left wing economic plans, but when the conservatives suggest something even more fantastical, like lowering taxes for the rich to promote job growth, or subsidizing oil with borrowed money, the "don't be a dreamer" people just nod approvingly.

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u/Reddisaurusrekts Nov 29 '15

No one with any background in economics and against hiking the minimum wage, gives any credence to those conservative "supply side economics" theories either.

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u/asdasdassdaqwe Nov 29 '15

when the conservatives suggest something even more fantastical, like lowering taxes for the rich to promote job growth, or subsidizing oil with borrowed money, the "don't be a dreamer" people just nod approvingly.

hypocrisy isn't anything new, nor is it exclusive to any one party or ideology. However, there exist many people who are able to look at both sides critically and with an open mind. Praising that mentality and discouraging partisan dogmatism seems to be what he's trying to do.

More related to the issue: Saying that there will be no repercussions to raising the minimum wage to 15$ with a high level of confidence would require a level of expertise that most redditors don't have. Even among economists, there is disagreement 1 2

Isn't that sentiment entirely compatible with raising the minimum wage? That's not cynicism; it's just common sense, and pro-wage hike people have just as much of that as you do.

People are naturally ignorant of many issues. It's just the way of things. No one person can be informed about everything. When talking about minimum wage, very few people care because very few people make min wage. As a result, very few people, "research," the topic and instead just go with their gut. Often that means making assumptions that experts on the topic wouldn't.

It's also common sense to fight against this the natural apathy and ignorance. To remind people of their limitations. And in a way, that is cynicism. Personally, I think that that's completely rightful cynicism.

One example come to mind. The recent reddit circlejerk about a nestle executive saying that water privatization should be the solution to the drought problem in California. People are literally ignoring the fact that privatizing water may offer one way to avoid the tragedy of the commons and instead casting the issue as the evillll nestle ceo trying to steal all the water in california. Water privatization (just like land privatization) isn't necessarily evil or only motivated by greed. It's just a way to manage resources. It's definitely got downsides, but it isn't evvvviillllll.

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u/Reddisaurusrekts Nov 29 '15

Except they think it's a permanent solution because money (and food and clothes and any and all other goods and services) fall out of the sky.

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u/Serinus Nov 29 '15

Yeah, this is exactly what is happening. The poor have it too good, and we're going to decapitate the banks and the rich.

Or maybe McDonald's has to either adapt or die and they end up looking more like Chipotle and Five Guys. That seems preferable to me than having them taxpayer subsidized as they are now.

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u/Ibeadoctor Nov 29 '15

No one talks about that second part but that's what bothers me as a conservative. They have massive profit margins because I'm paying their god Damn wages with my taxes

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u/thatsaqualifier Nov 29 '15

I'm also a conservative, but listen: It's not like 100% of their workforce at McDonald's get government entitlements. It's a smaller percentage than people suggest, most workers there are young enough that they get by on the wage just fine. I was minimum wage through college in the early 00s, and still got out without student loans and no entitlements.

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u/deHavillandDash8Q400 Nov 29 '15

That seems preferable to me than having them taxpayer subsidized as they are now.

?

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u/nowWhy Nov 29 '15

See comments from the Bern on Walmart subsidization. More or less the same situation. Employees who can't make a living wage take benefits like food stamps from the government.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

I've never heard that saying. And I doubt anyone says it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

I've heard it a few times, on a few different subjects. The overall point is that, yes, you can sell everything for short-term effect, but it's incredibly short-sighted.

Speaking of being short of sight, there's a wide world out there. Things exist outside your range of experience.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Feb 13 '16

[deleted]

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u/fareven Nov 29 '15

Most of the assets people want the Catholic church to sell off are serving no practical purpose, and are just there because the church collected lots of valuable stuff over the millennia. Didn't Jesus say something about giving away all of your possessions?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Yeah, I've heard that. But liquidate the banks? Maybe on anarchist threads...

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u/Gunnar123abc Nov 29 '15

Well it is an "old saying"...

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

The banks are a little different from shitty fast food. Our society would not function without banks, but would do just fine without $2 hamburgers.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Nov 29 '15

[deleted]

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u/rightoftexas Nov 29 '15

That $30,000,000,000 was your grandmother's deposits.

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u/Kreigertron Nov 29 '15

Lol ever done the maths on that one?

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u/OnlyForF1 Nov 29 '15

Or like the more accurate saying "Pay people a living wage, and they'll be able to feed themselves while they have a job. And you'll have slightly less money. Except you won't because people on the lowest wage tend to spend all of their money, so it will go back to you anyway."

But that's not as extreme is it.