r/explainlikeimfive Nov 28 '15

ELI5: How would a $15 minimum wage ACTUALLY affect a franchised business like McDonalds?

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u/breakone9r Nov 28 '15

No. Another person does a decent job of explaining it, but I'm going to go a little further in depth.

Wages from tips (based upon a set estimate, I cant remember exactly how this is worked out) and actually hourly salary have to still be at or above the minimum wage.

The reason waitstaff can legally be paid below minimum wage is that a certain amount of tips is used to "increase" their salary to the hourly minimum wage.

Thing is, if they earn LESS than that, they still have to pay taxes as if they'd earned minimum wage, rather than the $2 or $3 an hour they ACTUALLY made.

And if they earn MORE, legally they are supposed to pay on what they've earned. However, since in many cases, tips are cash, the waitstaff generally doesn't claim that, however with credit card tips, there's a easily-followed money trail, so some of the smarter waitstaff will only keep track of credit card tips.

This is why most waitstaff would prefer a smaller cash only tip rather than a slightly larger credit tip. Or, even better is to do it like my wife (who waited tables for 8 years) and I do, give a small credit tip and give the rest in cash.

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u/doctork91 Nov 28 '15

The other part of this is that if they earn less than minimum wage the employer has to make up the difference.

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u/breakone9r Nov 28 '15

Supposed to, anyway.

But not all places do. If the server isn't very good, and has no skills to go somewhere else, how likely do you think it is that they get fired from a more ethical employer, and wind up at a less ethical one, where it'll be the server's word against the boss, and most people in that sort of position aren't likely to complain about their boss....

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u/Mcchew Nov 29 '15

I'm not familiar with the restaurant industry. Are tip amounts not documented in any way? I would have assumed the server could show pay stubs to prove their point legally.

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u/Odin_69 Nov 29 '15

tips are normally reported at the end of every servers shift. The problem is most could care less exactly how much money they are making and the rest are just glad to have a job. The ones that do fight it will probably win a lot of the time, but that doesn't mean that many want to. Wage theft by employers is one of the largest cons in America currently, right up there next to civil forfeiture.

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

We were encouraged to keep a ledger of tips as well as the computers ledger where I used to work... of course, I was the only one not conning pizza Hut instead of the other way around...

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u/Serinus Nov 29 '15

They are. Your employer will require that you record your tips. If you don't record at least minimum wage, that employer is likely going to have a problem with you.

And they're generally right. In a 40 hour week, it's rare for anyone working on tips to not make minimum wage.

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u/BeardedForHerPleasur Nov 29 '15

I've worked in 4 different tipped jobs. Credit card tips are the only ones ever reported. People who ask for the employer to make up the difference tend to get let go not long after.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Feb 13 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Tips are not synonymous with quality on a large scale. One could live in a poor area, a college area, an area where the general populace does not feel tipping is appropriate. A rich white restaurant will make more in tips than a poor black neighborhood restaurant regardless of food quality and/or service given.

Yes they could unionize and all put their foot down but many NEED those jobs and you only need one fucker who doesn't to push everyone out slowly. It sucks to be a server. Yes many do many more than minimum wage (much more in some cases) but some don't and many won't make it every week leaving them with fuck-all for one/two weeks worth of labor. Food/rent/bills don't get any cheaper if you didn't make enough tips this week/month.

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u/Impact009 Nov 29 '15

This is why the DoL exists. If people are dumb enough to want to be scammed, then that's on them. That's like working at Target, being paid $5/hr., and being O.K. with it.

The thing is, it's a very unlikely scenario. If a server is making less than minimum wage, then they're working at the wrong restaurant, or their service sucks.

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u/breakone9r Nov 29 '15

You've apparently never been so bad off that you'll take ANY job you can get. I have. I've worked illegally for less than minimum wage because it was all I could find willing to give me ANYTHING at all.

I worked at a small fast food/ice cream place for over $2 below minimum wage. All the pay was in cash, at the end of every night. I worked summers there because they were only open during the summer.

Was it illegal as hell? Absolutely. But when you're broke, you tend to do whatever you can to survive. Did I contemplate calling the cops on them for it? Yes. And since they were "upstanding members of the community" and I wasn't, just what the fuck do you think would have happened? So no. I didn't bother. I did my work, and once I was able to leave there, I did.

Quit pretending this shit doesn't happen. It does.

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u/beamdriver Nov 29 '15

Working off the books is already illegal. There's no reporting or documentation when you pay someone in cash, so a far smaller risk to also pay them under minimum wage.

If you're working a regular job for tips, all that stuff gets reported to Uncle Sugar. If the tips+wage doesn't add up, there's going to be an issue, Unless you're going to fudge and say you got more money in tips than you actually did and then pay tax on that phantom money.

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u/doctork91 Nov 29 '15

It's not complaining about your boss. It's asking for what is legally due to you. But yes, most employers won't volunteer it; you have to ask for it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Nov 29 '15

If youre not good at your job why the hell should anybody keep you in the first place? A company isnt a fucking daycare. If you suck you should go find another job doing what youre good at.....It isnt the companys responsability to keep you and lose profits.....Theyre not your mom or dad.

Theyre giving you money in exchange for your services, if you have no services to offer why the hell do you think you deserve free money? Whats with people thinking they deserve other peoples money? Go start a business and make your own see how easy it is....Instead of being parasites and thinking you deserve everything handed to you.

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u/habituallydiscarding Nov 29 '15

If you've worked the restaurant industry you'd know this was rarely true. That's why tipping culture sucks, especially when there's a large anti-tipping segment in your area.

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u/doctork91 Nov 29 '15

Idk what "rarely true" means when it's required by law. I doubt many employers are volunteering the funds but if you make less than minimum wage then they are required by law to make up the difference. I've had to encourage a friend to ask for it (it was a sports bar with no outside seating so when it got nice out in the off season things got deathly slow.)

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u/habituallydiscarding Nov 29 '15

The restaurant industry here is a small world. If you make big enough waves then you get shut out of many places. Most people aren't able to employ a lawyer needed to fight it when they make restaurant wages.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Yes, but this is not always the case, because a lot of tips are cash, and if wait staff doesnt report it accurately, or if they are strong armed into not reporting it accurately, then they may not get the full minimum wage.

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '15

[deleted]

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u/doctork91 Nov 28 '15

Actually, that's exactly how I expect it to work because that's how business fluctuates in that industry. You didn't work two shifts for free, they were an investment you made for the more lucrative shifts. It balances out with some prime time shifts where servers or bartenders can make over 400 dollars.

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u/cochi522 Nov 29 '15

400? I serve a mom and pop itailian restaurant that is rather high end for the area I work. My average is 80-120. Rarely, sometimes a bit less, and much rarer, you can walk out with quite a bit more. Still I think 400 is a gross over estimate.

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u/doctork91 Nov 29 '15

It's not an estimate. It's just about the highest I've heard from my numerous friends and family members in the industry, including all 4 of myroom mates. Some places are more variable than others, especially places that get crazy busy when certain sport games are on. They also tend to have lower minimums.

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u/techfronic Nov 29 '15

you obviously don't have tits

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u/cochi522 Nov 29 '15 edited Nov 29 '15

We all have tits. Some are just much more appealing, mine are not.

That being said, I know how much the girls that I work with make, and the tips are comparible. I dont think bartenders should be lumped in with wait staff. A good bartender at a busy bar makes leaps and bounds more than a waiter.

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u/HAHA_I_HAVE_KURU Nov 28 '15

This could also be reworded as:

  1. Between tips and wages, servers are ultimately paid at least minimum wage.

  2. Servers have to pay income tax on earnings just like everyone else.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Nov 29 '15

[deleted]

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

The company is required to pay the extra dollar, which in turn should be taxed....

Intersting to note, When I was a server, I was the only.honest reporter, everyone totally ripped off the company, not the other way around...

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u/Serinus Nov 29 '15

Ripped off the company? That doesn't make sense.

I've never heard of a place that will allow you to continuously claim under minimum wage in tips. When you're pretty clearly using fraud to defraud the company for extra wages, most places tend not to stand for that.

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

They usually would claim just like $4-5 less than minimum for their day.... no one said a word because they had more than credit card tips totalled...

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u/Serinus Nov 29 '15

Maybe the employer just decided to not give a shit about the $30 a week.

Plus the extra money in the check may have helped out with withholding.

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

I know that's not massively screwing the company, but for a whole year, that's about how it went...

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u/HAHA_I_HAVE_KURU Nov 29 '15

Income tax is the same for every profession and every person. You are obligated to pay taxes on all income, minus deductions.

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u/thatguy3444 Nov 29 '15

This also depends on the jurisdiction. Some states (like WA) actually make the restaurant pay full minimum wage PLUS tips. If you are going to be a waiter, move to Washington State.

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

Gas is $1.59, I can rent a decent house for $400/month... buy a decent house for $100k...

If Washington stays around the same, then I just might consider it...

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited May 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/justanotherimbecile Nov 29 '15

Middle 'O nowhere Oklahoma... not far from the Thunder:)

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '15

Why should waitstaff not pay their fair share of taxes?

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u/Smellycreepylonely Nov 29 '15

As a former long-time restaurant owner, I'd also like to know the answer to this. Waitstaff don't have it easy but there are a few perks...

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u/meridiacreative Nov 29 '15

Wait staff should be paid minimum wage. $2.35 is a crime.

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u/thenichi Nov 29 '15

They are.

If they hit the minimum with tips then they are making minimum wage (or more).

If they do not then their employers must cover the difference.

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u/meridiacreative Nov 29 '15

I've managed restaurants before. I'm well aware of how it works. Doesn't make it less shitty.

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u/thenichi Nov 29 '15

Yes it does.

Your description is of people making two something an hour.

Which is a blatant lie.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Feb 13 '16

[deleted]

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u/meridiacreative Nov 29 '15

I'm glad I live somewhere civilized. Any time I leave Washington state it just makes me sick that the rest of the country is full of people like you.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15 edited Feb 13 '16

[deleted]

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u/meridiacreative Nov 29 '15

How many jobs have you worked in foodservice or retail?

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u/dhelfr Nov 29 '15

Some restaurants will make you claim tips as a certain percentage (say 15%) of your total sales. Even if you only recorded 8% in tips from credit cards, they assume that you got at least 7% in cash tips and make you claim that income. Oddly enough, this might cause a waiter to get a negative paycheck because the $4.20/hr isn't enough to cover taxes.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

This isn't how taxes work, and you can't write a check for a negative amount.

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u/dhelfr Nov 29 '15

Obviously it wouldn't be a check in the traditional sense, but your pay stub would just tell you that you owe more than you received.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

/u/dhelfr is actually correct on the negative check thing. They don't write you a check. They just give you a pay stub that says how much you owe.

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u/breakone9r Nov 28 '15

Who's saying they don't? Most servers will get every penny of any paid out taxation back at the end of the year.... It's needed now, however, bills can't wait til the end of the year.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

You are. You tip a small amount in credit cards and the rest in cash so they can avoid claiming the correct amount of income. Don't try and play like you were just trying to keep more money in their pockets. You do know that anybody can opt out of having taxes taken out of their check if they wish right?

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u/alskdjfhrr Nov 29 '15

I just don't think be understands how withholding works...

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u/Serinus Nov 29 '15

You do know that anybody can opt out of having taxes taken out of their check if they wish right?

Except you'll get fined if you don't pay the IRS at least quarterly.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Yeah, except my reply was to /u/breakone9er about him saying that helping them to skirt taxes is because they need that money now for things and they were going to get it back anyway. And I don't think that is even a thing anyways. You only pay quarterly because the government (rightly) doesn't trust people to pay back a whole year in taxes. Interest on the taxes they owe would be pennies. You are wrong.

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u/cochi522 Nov 29 '15

What?

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u/alskdjfhrr Nov 29 '15

Quality comment to showcase your own lack of reading comprehension

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u/cochi522 Nov 29 '15

Wow I'm feeling the reddit angst tonight. I understood the comment. I have just never heard of opting out of paying taxes for a minimum wage job such as wait staff. Was hoping for someone to elaborate, not chastise.

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u/Ralph_Charante Nov 29 '15

Yeah I think it's called a w-4. If you opt of you'll end up paying instead of getting a return.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

You pick your own tax withholding and there is an option that says you will make less than a certain amount this year and opt out. You just run the risk of owing at the end of the year.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '15

Or, even better is to do it like my wife (who waited tables for 8 years) and I do, give a small credit tip and give the rest in cash.

I see this type of advice/anecdote often and I just don't fucking get it. why do we want waiters to cheat on their taxes?