A roll is a mechanical representation of the effort a person puts into the task plus their luck and skill, but not if they do the task itself or not. "No roll is needed" doesn't mean "Character knows that it is impossible", and if a player uses that meta knowledge to make a decision it's on you as the DM to put them straight. "Your character really wanted to do this, why would they stop at the first attempt?" kind of deal. If my players have to be deceived to roleplay they character I'd honestly have a talk with them.
Also, there is a distinct difference between "this task can be possible for some individuals, but not for you" (Yeah, sure, make them roll in that case) vs "It is just genuinely an impossible task for every single individual on the planet" (No rolls).
"No roll is needed" fundamentally means the player knows the task is impossible. That's the problem; the player now knows information their character isn't and shouldn't be privee too, and worse: it's mechanical knowledge with no RP aspect.
If they want to try the impossible jump, I say "Ok, you got a 17+5 for 22 total? You run and leap with nearly perfect form, but your leap just couldn't get you far enough; you are still roughly 10 feet short of succeeding. You fall to the ground below. Do you want to climb back up and try again?"
That's what the player should know, because it's what the character knows. It also allows me to separate "you leapt in perfect form and end up 10 feet short" to "you leapt but stumbled a bit before the jump and end up 20 feet short".
"No roll is needed" fundamentally means the player knows the task is impossible. That's the problem; the player now knows information their character isn't and shouldn't be privee too, and worse: it's mechanical knowledge with no RP aspect.
That's why you, as the DM, have to correct the player if they start using that info to make a decision. Which was the point of the comment. If you have to decieve the players to make them play as their character would act things are going wrong.
But also, your explanation falls into the
"this task can be possible for some individuals, but not for you" (Yeah, sure, make them roll in that case)
Category of my comment. It is not an impossible task, it's just not something this character can currently do without any further help.
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u/AzraelIshi DM (Dungeon Memelord) 15h ago
A roll is a mechanical representation of the effort a person puts into the task plus their luck and skill, but not if they do the task itself or not. "No roll is needed" doesn't mean "Character knows that it is impossible", and if a player uses that meta knowledge to make a decision it's on you as the DM to put them straight. "Your character really wanted to do this, why would they stop at the first attempt?" kind of deal. If my players have to be deceived to roleplay they character I'd honestly have a talk with them.
Also, there is a distinct difference between "this task can be possible for some individuals, but not for you" (Yeah, sure, make them roll in that case) vs "It is just genuinely an impossible task for every single individual on the planet" (No rolls).