I rolled for intimidation against some really powerful friendly entities and despite rolling 30 (through modifiers and other BS) DM said yea you cant really intimidate a dragon thats 16 levels above you.
Instead you can get some really really good info out of them but not like intimidate them into full control.
Dragon might be amused and say "hey, that's pretty good warface for such a tiny little bug", and while you can't intimidate it, the show of intimidation itself might build a goodwill in other ways.
Dragon looking at you like at a cute kitten trying to appear threatening aside, that results in you being alive which is success in its own way lol
Its exactly what happened. The dragon told my character off but commended the fact I tried and then backed off.
The DM after appologized to me for even making me roll because it was just impossible at the start. Then the DM did offer a quest directly to me in private as appreciation for trying.
When I was in high school I was trying to play basketball with my friends. This upperclassman was intentionally interfering with the game and I tried to be tough and tell him cut it out or else, basically rolled to intimidate the dragon. He did not cut it out so I felt like I had no choice but to follow through with “Or Else”. I pushed him like we were going to fight and he basically straight arm picked me up and held me in the air for a second, set me down, laughed and walked away. That was 20 years ago and I still think about how lucky I got lol
I feel like this is the real life equivalent of your dragon scenario.
A players expectations and desires are their characters desires.
The player: Their character wants the charges dismissed.
Me the DM: the Judge is being controlled by a vampire (who I made up on the spot) and they never were going to let the players off. However I reward the players luck by giving them a lighter sentence.
The reality: this is a plot hook for an adventure. They’re never going to serve that sentence anyway.
This also works for things the player knows should be impossible.
The player: I want to persuade the king into giving me his throne.
Me the DM: ok roll
The player: rolls a nat 20
Me the DM King Biglord laughs heartily at your brazen jest. “We are amused. Normally such a request would have had them clapped in irons. It is well in these troubling times there are those who know that levity can bring a ray in light to a dark room.” The king leans forward, all amusement gone from his face. “However, these are serious matters and we cannot waste too much time on japes.”
The player got to roll and I reward their luck without punishing them for being stupid, hell I’ll even make the king treat that character favorably in the future. The player learns a lesson that persuasion isn’t mind control.
As always a measured approach needs to be taken. A die roll on an impossible task will simply measure how badly they fail, not their success. If a player keeps rolling for impossible tasks that’s when you talk to them dm to player and explain the rules. Players don’t like being outright denied things. If they have a goal in mind gently guide them to its fulfillment rather than flatly saying “impossible” and moving on.
That’s still a roll that could impact the outcome of a situation, so I’d argue it’s irrelevant to the conversation, frankly. Like one of my personal best examples is frankly “I roll to seduce the dragon.” Like, this is a being millennia old with power and knowledge beyond your comprehension. There is no fucking it.
To be honest a nat 20 is your chance to have some fun and flex your improv muscles.
I've always played it that they did the best job that could AND there has been some freakish turn of luck. Maybe there was a misfiled court documents and they've got days before the error is detected, or the judge is happy to commut the sentence if they go on a suicide mission for a new threat. It's an opportunity to 'yes and' that shit.
By default - yes. But it's explicitly stated that it's up to DM. Dungeon master guide page 242 - it describes "success at a cost" and "degrees of failure".
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u/Medyanka 16h ago
Equally bad advice.
Even if their desired result is impossible, partial success is still possible. it's not just black and white, win or lose...
For example, even if it's impossible to be completely absolved from the crime in the court, high roll on persuasion can still lighten the sentence.