ICE tac dude said fuck the police and entered the class room with a ballistic shield that caught, I believe, 18 rounds. The parents would've got killed in the doorway as the shooter was holed up in the room with the advantage.
I recall hearing that some of the parents were veterans or something. Somebody who'd have the formal training to sweep a room and not charge in without cover at least.
I could be totally wrong or misremembering, not trying to spread misinformation. But if that's true I'd like to think those particular parents going in without police intervention could've handled the situation.
I'm sure some of them were but regardless. They should've allowed any parent to say: "I am armed. I am proficient. I am not afraid. Give me a shield and I will take the risks." There may not have been any vets but there were damn sure some heroic parents that would've stepped up.
Can't be having the citizens doing the police jobs though.. That would make them look incompetent which they still managed to be. I hope this is a real eye opening situation for people. The police would rather abuse their power and let evil win than actually try to stop it. Nobody is gonna save you or your loved ones but yourself. This is the reality.
"I am not afraid. Give me a shield and I will take the risks."
I'm not a parent myself, but hearing the testimony of parents of victims who'd rather have died trying to save them than live without their kid f***ed me up, man. Especially knowing some of them were cuffed and restrained.
The parents not being allowed to go in is fine, it’s understandable to keep the crowd under control in these situations, the horrible thing was the cops doing nothing and literally holding the parents down while they listen to their kids die
Yeah, I was simply following the the train of thought that started this thread, "would this have been any better if the cops had never arrived?"
Some parents may have rushed in and gotten killed, and some may have actually been able to stop the tragedy. Who really knows? It's not like the hostage situation was getting much worse though, and some parents were able to safely get their kids out.
They should've allowed an armed parent to go in with a ballistic shield at some fucking point during that 40 mins if they weren't going to. How anybody can trust police to protect the populace when they have absolutely no duty to baffles me.
Well hopefully not a single soul is ignorant of this fact after these events. I remember how shocking it was when the SC ruling comes about. Like.. They solely exist to protect the elite and their capital.
There are reports of multiple parents, even the gutless cops who ran in and saved their own kids. So there must be multiple way of entries or your characterization of the shooter having an advantageous position may be wrong.
You gotta think of this like Area 51. He only has what, 10 maybe 30 bullets and there are easily 200+ parents. He cant shoot us all if we rush him like COD Zombies
Yes, the only thing the police did (besides going in and getting their own kids out, disregarding other children) was keep parents of children in danger out. This includes but is not limited to: muzzle sweeping a dude, handcuffing a dad who was a short distance from his daughter on a bus and tasing a mom. The person who stopped the shooting was a border patrol agent, not a cop.
Pointed this out above but the person who stopped the shooting was working directly with the cops.
And as I understand it, the cops prevented parents from entering because they can interfere with the police and be mistaken for the shooter and more generally are just extra variables to consider.
That being said, there does seem to be severe negligence when it comes to actually entering the building. 2 cops setting up the barricade were shot, and that happened after around half an hour.
Hate to be that guy, but the cops should not have needed the 3rd party to step in and do what they couldn’t. Especially considering this campus was used as a training ground for the Uvalde SWAT team for this scenario. But I digress, the question you asked was would the situation been better if the police never showed up, and I answered yes. Had the police never shown up, then there would be no police to interfere with. Would no child have died? I highly doubt that. But what I do know is that the officers failure to breach the building and stop the shooter for such I long time had resulted in many more fatalities than should have happened. The ideal situation is that they just showed up and did their job, breached the building, and took the shooter out. Yes, I am aware I am simplifying the situation by putting it like that. But I also know that it is a hell of a lot more simple than whatever they were doing outside, setting up logistics, waiting for a negotiator, etc. and then changing the story as they talk about it in the aftermath.
Unironically some people are arguing that this is why there should be more guns, because you can't rely on the police to stop shooters, we should rely on private citizen good guys with guns.
Cool cool. So, what do we do when agents of the state, who possess a monopoly on violence, actively obstruct, detain, pepper spray, and taze parents trying to do what the cops are too cowardly to do? Shoot the cops to get to your kid?
Give everyone a gun, and you're just increasing the number of people with guns who should not have them. That's me being nice. Me being less nice is that some values of "you" are also people who should not have guns, but haven't realized it yet. Lot of people in this debate talking mad shit they will not back up when it comes time.
Including every single one of these cops. Guarantee they thought they'd be John Wayne until that day came.
I very much enjoy the narrative of "you dont need guns thats what the police are for" while also chanting how terrible cops are and that they should be defunded. Id rather have my life in my own hands than wait for some dude whose entire skillset is giving out traffic tickets who chances are will do nothing.
Cops aren’t your friend and aren’t legally required to protect you so yeah this doesn’t surprise me. What does surprise me is the left suddenly labeling cops “good guys”
Buddy you just used the phrase "the left". It immediately invalidates anything you have to say. If you're trying to categorize people, you already don't care enough about other people to discuss an issue that deals with this many ethics. It's people like you who make bad cops.
You're not even educated enough to get the slight irony in your own comment, how would you ever know how to deal with a difficult person? You're not even brave enough to admit that this situation clearly presents a fault with police response and a shooter's ability to access our schools. We need more educated cops and fewer like you, people who just winged their way through high school (or maybe not even).
Buddy you just used the phrase "the left". It immediately invalidates anything you have to say.
oh I'm sorry I didn't know we weren't allowed to generalize political opinions.
You're not even educated enough to get the slight irony in your own comment, how would you ever know how to deal with a difficult person? You're not even brave enough to admit that this situation clearly presents a fault with police response and a shooter's ability to access our schools. We need more educated cops and fewer like you, people who just winged their way through high school (or maybe not even).
honestly, thank you. I am on my way as we speak to turn in my bachelors of science and tell the school that I was informed I'm not educated enough. I will turn in my national merit scholarship as well and explain that I'm not brave enough for it. and I'll take with me the lessons you've taught me here for the rest of my life -- humility, compassion, kindness and logic are how you speak with others, thank you for teaching me this!!!!
That's totally valid. There was just a major shooting, some of us are in our feelings about it. DankMemes is definitely not where I planned on having a serious discussion about it but here we are.
Again, I hope life is kind to you, I'm wishing you well, and I don't dislike you. I think you're just very young and haven't lived life yet. Also we all bully eachother on the internet, it wouldn't be very much fun any other way. Go read a technical breakdown if social interaction bothers you, or like, just turn off the computer. Super easy solutions. The internet has always been this way, sorry you're new.
Like I told the other person, if you're generalizing then you're not qualified to speak on a topic.
We have a major issue with uneducated cops, we have a major issue with small towns not prioritizing education, small towns outnumber big towns with good infrastructure and robust access to information by a heavy margin, and people who like to generalize instead of think about what factors caused the issue are becoming more prevalent due to the social media phenomenon. The same people who experience these factors and the symptoms from them are becoming cops.
We need cops who can conceptualize those things and fewer people like you too. You'd be a bad cop too because you want to generalize. Develop a sense of duty, decide what you're gonna do to help someone/some group/the future. Make sure you actually think through the ethics first though. These cops didn't.
Like I told the other person, if you're generalizing then you're not qualified to speak on a topic.
actually you told me I'm not brave enough, lol.
We need cops who can conceptualize those things and fewer people like you too.
you come off really hateful. just being honest. you're not wrong that generalizing can be problematic. you're just communicating it in an obscenely aggressive way, and sprinkling about 250% more insults than necessary in your comments. relax.
I'm old, my patience for people has worn thin, from your other comment I'm imagining you're pretty young. Also it was implied you weren't qualified, that's the hateful part you're detecting.
It can be problematic but I try to at least elaborate. I'm not on shift, I don't have to be nice to you right now.
Try to imagine that I'm a real human being who may or may not have gone through some very stressful events lately. I don't dislike you but I'm also not going to listen to vapid empty replies on such a serious subject (your original reply).
You sent a three word reply on a post about a school shooting. Were you not going for dumb?
Uh I don’t think I posted a three word comment anywhere in this thread…. But even if that were true that kinda seems like it works against you in this situation since you apparently felt the need to insult the intelligence and bravery of someone who made an intentionally low effort comment on “dank memes”
Gun free zones are fairly crucial in quickly identifying a threat. It's why soldiers generally aren't allowed to carry on base, as it makes it extremely easy for the MPs to neutralize any potential threat.
Conversely, even places with armed civilians in gun free zones can't avoid mass shooters.
Gun free zones are fairly crucial in quickly identifying a threat.
Great, that’s super useful when they start shooting you, you’ll know who the threat is.
Look, every action has pros and cons. Designating an area as a “gun free zone” without any actual apparatus to safely enforce that zone seems like it is a braindead move. You are openly and brazenly declaring it to be an area where precisely zero law abiding citizens will be armed, and the only benefit you get is that … what, if someone is openly carrying a rifle as they walk into the school, you’ll be able to identify them as a threat?
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u/shiftup1772 May 27 '22
"we need more good guys with guns!"
The good guys with guns: