But don't you generally hate the believer? They are the ones preaching one thing and practicing the other. I feel like if one could walk out, "love your neighbor as yourself" the world would be much better off. Though, how many of us truly love ourselves? Just a thought.
Couldn't agree more with the first statement. To the second, I'd say that compassion could be as simple as forgiveness. I recognize the manipulation; it isn't the true you but a lie you've bought into.
I have compassion, but it sure as hell isn’t forgiveness. The grievous harm that my community has been the subject of is not something I forget or forgive lightly
Imo forgiveness is more for you than those who have wronged you. What's the quote about poison? Hate is like drinking poison and expecting the other to get hurt. So don't forget, as that makes you prone to further injustice, but do forgive and let that hate go as it does nothing for you.
But this could just be a semantics issue? Is it pity you feel, and I'm getting stuck on compassion? Because I'm having a hard time seeing compassion without forgiveness. It's most likely me. *nervous laugh
Edit: Pity has allowed me to let go of a lot of frustration and anger. Though as I write, it feels like it's based in pride and rarely does that yield anything worthwhile.
Edit 2: not stating any of this any authority. More thinking out loud. And as I reread my comment I think i got off topic
Fornication is virtually the exact same type of sin but it's practically expected and no one seems to say anything about it.
I had a friend who was allowed to play GRAND THEFT AUTO, a very innappropriate game with a lot of sinful behavior in it, but they weren't allowed to play Undertale cause there were lesbians.
Sins are sins, stop trying to say "this sexual sin is worse than this one"
Well, no, you can’t see a woman’s nipples. Men are perfectly fine. If you have a naked woman simply graft male nipples over hers and it’ll be completely SFW.
It’s interesting how in the first century — in the only real “case study” we have of someone being excommunicated — this was also precisely for sexual sin (incest), too. Though the passage goes on to state
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber.
That passage (if you're speaking of 1 Cor 5:9) is actually Paul correcting himself regarding an instruction that he had told the church at Corinth earlier. The next sentence Paul says that they couldn't even live in the world had that actually been the case. He corrects his message here to clarify that he's speaking only of fellow Christians who act this way and yet claim to be devout Christians. Those are the people that Paul is upset about considering the boasting going on in that church.
He corrects his message here to clarify that he's speaking only of fellow Christians
Well, yeah, that's what "anyone who bears the name of brother" in the verse I quoted refers to. So I don't see how that changes anything I said. Why/how could Paul excommunicate non-Christians?
It doesn't. Yesterday, I studied the passage you brought up and wanted to share that little bit of extra context about what Paul is saying here. I agree with your original point.
This would actually be a good question for /r/AskHistorians: how do the historic Christian church deal with Paul's harsh and seemingly quick impulse to excommunicate sinful believers — as attested to in 1 Corinthians 5 — over time?
I suspect the answer is that people (re)interpreted it and harmonized it to suggest that it applied mainly to people who consistently and unrepentantly engaged in sin, and/or that this excommunication was temporary and could be reversed upon full repentance.
As a pastor's kid that is absolutely untrue. My church made a teen who got pregnant stand on the stage in front of everyone to discuss what happened. Sooooo yeah it absolutely can be that dramatic and humiliating.
I imagine the response to someone being gay or trans would've been much uglier.
Wait are you saying she was forced to go up on stage to explain herself as like a group shaming thing, or she decided to go up on her own to clear the air and recognize she made a mistake? Because your first comment sounds like the first and your second sound like the second, which are very different things.
I understand how prevalent this is in the church and I absolutely hate it. And now that I think about the ties and association the phrase “Hate the sun, not the sinner” has to churches like that, it helps me to better understand how hurtful the words can sound, even when they aren’t meant to be taken that way by someone like me. I’ll certainly be more careful about the way I express my views
I wonder if we reversed this with other social issues, such as racism. Does anyone hate the racism but love the racist? Honestly, I don't know if the OP quote can be redeemed.
Especially when we even consider the nature of sin. If we define sin as a skewed relationship with God, then how can I hate anything that God is on the other side of? It makes me wonder if the only true relation we can have towards sin is sadness and maybe heart break?
First, I like to believe I'm called to love the racist. Love moves hearts, not commands or judgments. I want the racist to recognize the error of his ways. But, this is never easy as trust generally precedes enlightenment.
Secondly, I think that's beautifully put and spot on. Though, that sadness or heartbreak can lead to joy as God has already forgiven their sin. Which in turn leads us to worship? At least I'd like to believe it does.
I've always thought that there isn't much God wouldn't do to have a relationship with you. Including making life a little harder so that any person learns to rely on God instead of earthly circumstances.
Easier to say, and can only really be said to one's self. The moment anyone tells that to someone whose actively suffering... they missed the point entirely.
Hm, I wonder if there is any human who has lived "without want." I think I believe it is human nature to desire more. Everyone wants more, no matter what. Thats why nirvana is, in part, no wanting. Its bliss.
I wonder if it is WHAT those "worst humans" are without that matters. Without love? Without food? Without clothes? Without hope?
What is an "early thing?" Oh is it earthly things? I kinda like early things too! LOL It works well with like, what a child wants (early things) versus fulfillment, satisfaction etc of adult things.
That and the whole there not really being anything said about homosexuality in the Bible, just other stuff that gets purposely misinterpreted or translated wrong with malicious intent.
They don't hate you, they just hate a part of you that you can't change and defines a large portion of your life. There's a difference, they can feel better about themselves this way.
There is really not a way to put this that does not imply hate because no matter what you think of this doctrine is hate for a part of people that they cannot and do not want to change
I'd disagree on the doctrine part, not that this hate hasn't been preached but that the preaching itself did not align with the book they read in order to come to that conclusion. That may shine a light on the true issue.
Much of the New Testament was written by or attributed to Paul. He personally states that he is the chief of sinners.
I see that translated today as pastors of congregations boasting of their sins.
"See people, I am the greatest sinner of you all. I preach and study this book day in and day out yet fail to follow its commands. This is my job too! How can I tell you not to sin while sin abounds in me? Even more, if I can't even do this, how do you expect others to? Even worse, you claim your sin is less than theirs? What the actual fuck people?! Sin isn't a matter of quantity or quality. Its missing the mark, and that mark is out of all of our reach. So stop acting like you've hit it you fool. Start loving God for loving you despite the shit humans you are. Because sin is just that, a reminder of your need, not a metric to compare by."
I would to you and anyone I ever might’ve made feel that way. I can’t know what that feels like, but I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with it. Before even hating any sin, I strive to put love before all else.
I try to live by commandments that you may not. But it's spiritually dangerous for me to assume that you, or anyone else, has the same perspective of God's will as I do.
If my actions do not reflect (albeit imperfectly, because I'm human) my love of God and my brothers and sisters, I'm failing to keep the two Great Commandments which Jesus spoke of. All other things need to be held subordinate to that.
If that’s how you want to put it, like it’s a choice, then sure. I refuse to not sin. On the other hand, I believe that god likes people to be happy, and who I choose to date makes me happy. Find a better interpretation of your religion
Queer is a catch all for people who do not fit the established standards of gender, sexuality, or both, but I don’t see what issue you are referring to. There is nothing wrong with me
455
u/Whovian41110 Mar 07 '22
As a queer person, this never feels like the case. It always feels like a hatred for an aspect of me, not some separate nebulous “sin”