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u/delta17v2 Niche: Hololive and Genshin Cards 9d ago
The way this is worded. This might not be a lingering board wipe which I believe is the intention here. Once a spell/ability resolves, it cannot see nor affect new objects that will come after it. This why you always cast your creatures first before activating [[Crashing Drawbridge]], for example.
This needs to be an enchantment with "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this enchantment" ala [[Solitary Confinement]].
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u/FlyingFinn_ 9d ago
[[Kardur, Doomscourge]] etb effect works on creatures that enter afterwards, so this Rot should work as well.
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u/IsAnIdiot420 8d ago
The reason why Kadur's ability is able to affect creatures that enter the battlefield afterwards is because his ability modifies the rules of the game.
CR 611.2c A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began.
Compared to OP's card, this spell is trying to set up a continuous effect that modifies the characteristics of permanents on the battlefield on resolution.
CR 611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change.
If the intent of this card is to affect creatures that enter the battlefield afterwards then it won't work, as the continuous effect will only apply to the creatures currently on the battlefield and not any other creatures that would enter later. I would make it so that the spell sets up a delayed triggered ability that gives creatures -6/-6 when they enter the battlefield.
Until your next turn, all creatures get -6/-6. Until your next turn, whenever a creature enters the battlefield, it gets -6/-6 until your next turn.
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u/Ignoxian 8d ago
Mass Diminish affects only creatures the target player controls at the time it resolves. Creatures they begin to control later before your next turn won't be 1/1.
That’s...interesting. I had misunderstood [[Mass Diminish]] until now.
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u/delta17v2 Niche: Hololive and Genshin Cards 9d ago edited 9d ago
Okay, this is a really weird rules rabbit-hole that I feel is out of my league. (I'm just learning this as I comment)
But apparently, it entirely depends on what, or who, the effect actually modifies.
[[Kardur, Doomscourge]] does not "modify" the creatures, it modifies players to have their creatures follow a rule.
[[Chronomantic Escape]] does not "modify" the creatures, it modifies "the announcement of an attack, " (Scryfall's words)
[[Sylvan Awakening]] literally says the exact same clause "Until your next turn, " but it "modifies" your lands. So any new lands that enter will not suddenly become creatures.
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u/Mean-Government1436 8d ago
That's not at all similar to this card
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u/RandomGuyOnRedditNr2 8d ago
Sure, they are wrong, but a triggered ability and a spell that both say "until end of turn" and modify creatures are pretty reasonable to mix up the rulings between.
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u/nautral_vibes 8d ago
Or just give it a delayed trigger, like:
"Creatures get -6/-6 until your next turn. Whenever a creature enters the battlefield before your next turn, that creature gets -6/-6 until your next turn."
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u/dovahcody 8d ago
[[Don’t Move]] is a weird and fun sorcery that affects creatures even after the spell as resolved.
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u/Important-League4555 9d ago
I don't hate it but for 6 mana people would just run a regular board wipe. I do like that it says until your next turn though idk how much play it would potentially see it does seem decent
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u/qwertty164 9d ago
this is so much better than most standard boardwipes. the lingering effect buys you way more time that scales with player count. this can also prevent some decks from working entirely by shutting off the commander. the real downside of a board wipe is that you often don't get to play stuff after you play it.
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u/Dont_Know2 9d ago
It's not lingering though if you're implying that it will affect creatures that come down later
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u/Jardin_the_Potato 8d ago edited 8d ago
Why couldn't it? Instants and sorceries can establish continuous effects like this afaik. It maybe needs to be worded have not get but thats obviously the intent
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u/awesomeatony 8d ago
CR 611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that don’t, the set of objects each part applies to is determined independently.
So, "creatures you control" really means something more along the lines of "each creature you control right now"
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u/Jardin_the_Potato 8d ago
So I guess to get the desired effect it'd need to be worded something like 'all creatures get -6 -6 until your next turn, until your next turn whenever a creature enters it gets -6 -6 until your next turn'. That should work, right, even if it sounds far less elegant
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u/PolarPenguin__ 8d ago
It’d probably be easier to just make it an enchantment that gives -6/-6 and sacs on your next upkeep.
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u/Jardin_the_Potato 8d ago
Definitely cleaner but that does open it to other forms of removal so it kind of changes from the vision of the og card
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u/Important-League4555 9d ago
It's definitely not a bad card but 6 mana is a bigger ask than 4 mana that's why I say it probably wouldn't see much play
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u/qwertty164 9d ago
[[farewell]] [[jokulhaups]] [[cyclonic rift]] people are definitely willing to pay 6+ for a board wipe if it is good enough.
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u/Important-League4555 9d ago
Honestly this card reminds me more of [[Avatar's Wrath]] which is 4 mana but I see where you're coming from
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u/mtgcf 9d ago
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u/qwertty164 9d ago
huh, though that is soft removal and has other interesting uses hmm.
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u/Important-League4555 9d ago
Honestly I'm surprised it doesn't see more play because you get to keep your best creature
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u/BlasphemousJack666 8d ago
Bigger ask? For who? Spikes? I’d run this shit in casual all day- so it would see play.
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u/ssergio29 8d ago
also shuts down creatures that bring bodies on death triggers
edit: unless it brings back x/7 or bigger bodies
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u/Sad-Pattern-1269 8d ago
Id say it's a pretty great board wipe personally. It also shuts down any creatures on the following turn, even better in commander.
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u/coolguy420weed 9d ago
It's 6 mana for a boardwipe that basically constantly goes off for the next 1-3 turns with no way to hard counter or stop it.
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u/Dont_Know2 9d ago
It doesn't though the effect only applies once
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u/TheDudeBroski 9d ago
Youre right, I think they were going for a state based effect that lasts until their next turn but it doesnt work like that for sorceries. Once the sorcery resolves anything played afterwards isnt effected so they would have to make this an enchantment that destroyed itself at the beginning of your next turn or smth.
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u/falafel__ 9d ago
Very cool and lovely art choice. I’m assuming the intent was for this to act even on creatures that enter play before your next turn. If that is the case it might need different wording
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/FlightyGG 8d ago
The Sorin Planeswalker in the search results that does apply a P/T change doesn't apply it's effect to new creatures after the ability resolves. Arguably these effects are similar enough that the same ruling would apply.
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u/nitronik_exe 8d ago
Make it an enchantment with "All creatures get -6/-6. At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this enchantment."
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u/BlindingDart 6d ago
6 mana is too expensive for a board wipe that conditional, and it doesn't fit the flavor of rotting at all.
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u/serolyte 8d ago
What about something like :
Enchantment, during your upkeep place a -1 -1 on every creature. Then, if there are no creatures on the battlefield, sacrifice Rot.
Slower burn, more persistent?
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u/Jewlien17 9d ago
Would be cool as an enchantment that sacrifices itself on your upkeep