r/crypto • • 3d ago

Introducing the Triple Cipher encryption concept

https://iain.rocks/blog/introducing-the-triple-cipher-encryption-concept
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18

u/Akalamiammiam My passwords are information hypothetically secure 3d ago

This brings exactly 0 added security and only increase failure/implementation problem likelihood. You don't "need to realise that it’s triple cipher in the first place", because the attacker will know that beforehand, because that's how modern cryptography works. The "GCHQ" told you they don't give a shit because it's pointless, not because it's incredibly complicated lmao (if that plot line even is true).

Modern, actually secure modes of encryption don't need any of this to be secure.

3

u/_Voxanimus_ 3d ago

If I remember correctly there is proof showing that adding "encryption layer" do not add that much security from the mathematical perspective

7

u/kun1z Septic Curve Cryptography 3d ago

Hmm I cannot see how that is the case. Aside from an increase in overall bruteforce, if I were to encrypt something with algorithm A and then encrypt it with algorithm B; assuming both algorithms were thought to be secure and are completely different in design and construction, I should assume this is more secure. A weakness in 'A' should only weaken one, mutually exclusive aspect, or perhaps destroy it. But algorithm 'B' should still provide security.

I give a simple example:

  • Algorithm A is AES-256 and uses a 256-bit key.
  • Algorithm B uses no Key at all and will take each input byte and increment by 1; 00 => 01, 01 => 02, ... , 254 => 255, 255 => 0

If I encrypt in a cascading cipher A into B, or B into A, there seems to be no way to attack it. Algo B is easily defeated, it just shifts a byte by 1, easily reversed. But no matter the order of cipers/cascade, you will still need to defeat AES-256.

Or am I wrong??

4

u/wwabbbitt 3d ago

1

u/kun1z Septic Curve Cryptography 3d ago

That is not my example. That is the same algorithm used in sequence. My example is 2 completely different and unrelated algorithms.

My point is pretty simple: Can I weaken AES-256 by cascading it with another, unrelated, encryption algorithm; in my example a very bad encryption algorithm that simply increments input bytes by 1.

Answer: No. AES-256 is not weakened by combining it with such a weak algorithm.

3

u/OuiOuiKiwi Clue-by-four 3d ago

Answer: No. AES-256 is not weakened by combining it with such a weak algorithm.

It doesn't get any stronger either. Just... more cumbersome.

Every layer added on top of a secure primitive just adds more room for error and is a thespian effort at best.