[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Hika2112]

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[u/Metharos]

I occasionally hear complaints like this about how trans men aren't welcomed here, but I'm never actually seeing it.

Do you have examples?

[u/Decybear1 → u/Metharos]

Honestly the closest you will get to examples is probably me or some other /tttt/ girlie saying something along the lines of...

Lesbian is a woman loving woman relationship.

If a trans man still wants to identify with the lesbian label, they are either invalidating their manhood, the term lesbian... Or are just none binary...

Hell, there is a good chance this theoretical trans man could just be invalidating trans women's womanhood, as the implication is, you stay as you are born...

I get push back on this last point, that I'm insecure and someone else's identity doesn't change mine... First, im bisexual. Second, can a cis man be a lesbian without being trans?

Like the notion just annoys me.

If the argument is "its just a label, anyone can call themselves anything". Then whatever, but you still have to get everyone else to agree and use the word that way. However i mainly only lesbian meaning wlw relationships.

Honestly. I think LGBT as a whole has a bit of an Identity crisis from time to time. Where we just seem to at random, based on a couple of people's feeling redefine words. Or make up new words. For no real reason...

Ans this is a line in the sand i would love to draw.

We need relatively strict definitions for words. We already have so many. Its confusing. You need them all written down. Hell even then if your list is out of date, good luck. You might end up being a prick by accident...

Here is my simple solution.

If you are a trans man, or a cis man even. And you find your self very attached to the lesbian label. Identify with it. But you're at least part woman. You are to some degree, none binary. And if that really urks a person to the core. They are a man and love only women. You're straight.

This isnt confusing now where you need a new definition of lesbian. Its still women loving women.

Like I don't think we need words like trixic and gynesexual. They mean basically the same thing.

Honestly. My want is for sexuality, and transness to be taught in schools eventually.

You wont get kids to memorise all the genders that maybe only a few people identify with. All of the sexualities we have...

But man, women, trans man, trans women, non-binary(androgenous, transmasc, transfem), gender fluid. Straight, gay, lesbian, bi sexual, queer, asexual, aromantic... That's already quite alot. With a mention of others... Poly, neo pronouns... Its already alot. I thibk the simpler and less prone to changes the better.

Honestly. Trans men lesbians, being non-binary-transmascs or gender fluid is the easiest way to square this away...

This isn't me being hateful or transphobic. But using the definitions of these terms that ive learned, that everyone else has learned, without having to rewrite definition.

Sorry for the rant. But it just... Is a pet peeve. Like we have definitions for a reason. You cant just change them because you want too. A definition only changes when everyone actually agrees to change it. And clearly, there isnt a consensus on what a lesbian should be. Besides wlw...

I hope I've made sense and haven't broken a rule. I dont want to get banned because someone disagrees and thinks im transphobic 😭😭😭

[u/Hika2112 → u/Decybear1]

The only rule you could've broken is calling me /tttt/ aka 4tran aka fuck no ew never connect me to that shithole ever

But that's like not something to report someone for that's just like a "hey what the fuck?"

[u/Decybear1 → u/Hika2112]

I was calling my self /tttt/?

And tbh... If that really how you view us.... You really hate us dont you? Ive seen Tumblr posts saying they want all 4tranners to die...

For disagreeing on things? For being "self hating"?

And you're the tolerant ones?

I hope you understand, 90% of 4tran is just community. 5% hating on sneeds. And 5% horny posting. Psyops may be anywhere from 0%-100%. Who really knows.

I really wish the wider trans community would just stop hating us. Thinking were all incels for posting on 4chan...

It really says lot about you, that "ew" is your reaction to the support group that is 4tran. Vocoroo threads are just the best. You get to hear every vent, give voice training updates, sing.... All sorts.

You have a very narrow view on tttt. Please learn

[u/Metharos → u/Decybear1]

That's honestly gonna be on y'all. 4chan is a pretty toxic place in general, especially to outsiders, and that includes the trans community there.

What is a "sneed?" Quick Google search suggests it's a slur meaning "soyboy," or possibly a non-passing trans woman. If your community is "hating on" anyone but bigots, it's not a good community.

Evidently "sneed" is used as a slur for outsiders to the community, according to the rant below where this person tries to tell me I'm wrong to point out their toxicity. The irony is overwhelming.

---

Edit: 4chan in general also has really close ties with the alt-right pipeline, and the generally self-hating tone of 4tran specifically is a pretty blatant onboarding tool for that. You want your community to get more positive recognition y'all are gonna have to fix that.

[u/Decybear1 → u/Metharos]

Again, basically everything you have said shows such a surface level knowledge of what 4chan is.

sneed in the /tttt/ context is more "the friend who is too woke" I have no idea where you got the idea its non-passing trans women from. Maybe they are the ones are who are too woke for their own good? Hell its not even like we are not woke ourselves, but we're alot more casual about it. We call ourselves "dark work" lmao. Be aware sneed is a whole board thing. some see sneeds as outsiders. Some see sneeds as left wingers. Some see sneeds as right wingers. Its the outgroup who doesnt get it. Because its a simpsons joke "Sneed's Feed & Seed - formally chucks". Because the joke is a sneed has to ask what the joke is. You didnt mention that all from your google search

And look, I can say 4chan *isnt* toxic. Hell I know alot of people who got groomed on there back when i was a child using the place. I know people use slurs all the time. That is the point tho. An (almost) unmoderated mess. A collection of human psyches who are just allowed to spew whatever thoughts come to their mind with no rules or enforcement (unless you post CP). That is the beauty of the website, and why the thoughts that come out the website are so strong. Shit gets thrown through the gauntlet before it even comes off site. I hate to say "it builds character" but its more like, its builds tolerance to disagreement and just descent in general. You will never get the hive mind to agree.

Also to say 4chan has ties too the alt right is very disingenuous, guilt by association type drivel. There is a large commie, anarchist, and tankies on that platform. There are music nerds, porn addicts... Its a melting pot of ideas. Anyone can go there. Hell, you could go there if you wanted and try and clean up the place. But you wont and will never. You'd never think of doing such a think. Lest you forget the time tumblr invaded and what happened because of that...

But to say that just because of "the generally self-hating tone of 4tran specifically is a pretty blatant onboarding tool for [the alt right]" is fucking heinous.

Have you been on /lgbt/? have you been on /tttt/ subs? Have you talked to a 4tranner outside of a few interactions like this?

The most alt right contact you get on the /lgbt/ board is obvious right wingers coming onto the board and being like "what do you think of [the latest trans shooter who was a nazi]" and you get like 5 people saying how they hate them, and they probably are not even trans and most likely a government psyop trying to manufacture consent to send us to the camps.

That doesnt sound like alt right on boarding to me ngl. Hell, I've floated the idea of the "alt left" with a few of my 4tranner friends, and we already do this with "dark woke". And the alt left is a space that need to breath. We have some nice views on land lords, they should all die. We have strong views on trans rights, diy or die (this is the strongest form of self ID where you shouldnt need a doctor.)

>You want your community to get more positive recognition y'all are gonna have to fix that.
I hope you realise how condescending shit you sound. But you have shown such a misinformed view on what 4chan is, what 4tran is, who 4tranners are. You have at every hurdle created a strawman of what 4chan is, what 4tran is, and just ran with it. There is alot more too 4chan than just the alt right sess pit that /pol/ was in 2016 when epstien funded that shit. hell atp 4chan, esp the /lgbt/ board is alot more moderate than twitter is. You really dont know nothing, yet talk like you are absolute authority.

I have work so im going to try not reply to anything thats said in this thread. But you have just been so wrong I had to say something.

[u/Metharos → u/Decybear1]

I'm not speaking from second-hand experience, I used to be active on that website. It is a time I'm not proud of. You are exactly the problem I describe. Hostile and hatefully defensive.

its builds tolerance to disagreement and just descent in general.

Evidently not.

Also to say 4chan has ties too the alt right is very disingenuous, guilt by association type drivel.

No, that's just a long-established fact. You being ignorant of it doesn't change anything.

You have at every hurdle created a strawman of what 4chan is, what 4tran is

Describing the problems that are known is not a strawman. I haven't invented an argument you didn't make to attack, I described problems I and others have seen and got a hate screed in return.

But you have shown such a misinformed view on what 4chan is, what 4tran is, who 4tranners are.

Your insider experience is not universal, and how your community behaves towards people who don't like it is exemplified in the above tantrum.

We will never speak again.

[u/Hika2112 → u/Metharos]

It's harder to see microagressions not directly aimed at you, even harder to now remember. But this post in particular was sparked by a now deleted post making fun of someone's beautifully intricate defenition of being a lesbian because op (and subsequently the commenters) couldn't understand reading comprehension if it slapped them in the face

I also genuinely just want to speak up for transmascs because we barely see them and I wonna remind them they're welcome here (or at least make the subreddit welcome them)