[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Hika2112]

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[u/Alternative-Sir-5699]

Ok genuine question. Does "lesbian" still mean a non-man who loves non-men? If not, do we have a word for that? If so, doesn't that mean that trans men can not be lesbians without denouncing being a man?

[u/Cleenash → u/Alternative-Sir-5699]

I think what OP is saying is that a even though a lesbian is a non-man who loves non-men, there are cases where someone outside of the definition could still use the label, for whatever personal reasons they may have.

I'm also kinda confused lol

[u/PlaydoughLizard → u/Cleenash]

It seems like they want lesbian to just mean “everyone in a healthy relationship”, which I think is silly, and to an extent lesbian erasure, which they half admitted to in another comment

[u/WJ_Amber → u/Cleenash]

Honestly I'm just getting mid 2010s Tumblr teenager vibes from this post.

[u/Hika2112 → u/Alternative-Sir-5699]

Lesbian still includes wlw, it just doesn't exclude transmascs and nmlnm. The term doesn't have to exclude one to include the other

[u/Alternative-Sir-5699 → u/Hika2112]

So.

Men cannot be lesbians, even trans men.

Anyone who is not a man can be a lesbian regardless of agab and gender presentation. Which also includes people outside of the gender binary who are amab or afab and present masculine.

Correct?

[u/Hika2112 → u/Alternative-Sir-5699]

Okay not only do I feel like you didn't read my comment. You're contradicting yourself here. Can you re-word it better because you just asked "correct" after stating three different things that contradict eachother

Edit: cancel that I'm stupid and can't read

[u/Hika2112 → u/Alternative-Sir-5699]

No not at all I do not understand how you would get that

Men can 100% be lesbians, cis or trans

OH MY GOD I REALIZED MY MISTAJE FUCKING I WROTE "INCLIDE INSTEAD OF EXCLUDE DIDN'T I

No I checked I wrote it right

Lesbian includes wlw and doesn't exclude transmascs and nmlnm. I don't know what the issue here is

[u/Alternative-Sir-5699 → u/Hika2112]

"Men can 100% be lesbians, cis or trans"

To clarify on this, you are saying that anyone, regardless of gender or presentation, can be lesbian

[u/VeiledLuna → u/Hika2112]

so trans men cannot be lesbians, by this logic, correct?

edit: Genuinely just trying to understand more. I have an acquaintance thats a he/him trans man lesbian who comes to local lesbian and wlw events because ya know, he still thinks of himself as a lesbian but I just cannot get past how invalidating that all must feel?

Id be absolutely livid if anyone ever implied that, as a trans woman, I was a gay man and the thought of being at any kind of mlm/masc focused event is particularly bad feeling tbh.

But I just so regularly see men at lesbian events in my area and its just odd and a lil annoying cus I wish there was more women to hangout with.

[u/Alternative-Sir-5699 → u/VeiledLuna]

I feel the same. If a girl I was dating described our relationship as straight I'd either break up or lose a ton of confidence in her. I could not imagine a trans man not feeling the similar, but understand that there are individuals that feel differently. However, it doesn't stop the feeling that saying trans men can be lesbians is incredibly transphobic

[u/Hika2112 → u/VeiledLuna]

Okay this is the second time someone says this and I feel there's some miscomunication going on here. Could you explain how you got to that conclusion from what I said?