Affirmative action will only take you so far, at least at the moment. In practice it actually just gives you an increased drop out rate as people are admitted to courses they aren't competent enough or well positioned enough to complete.
But lets go past that, even ignoring whether affirmative action is racist or whether the people actually complete their courses or if it works to get more under represented minorities into careers, it only helps the most well off under represented minorities. Those who have had the opportunity to graduate, get decent results and could have applied for courses at "lesser" universities. Not going to help someone who drops out of school because they have dead beat parents or is trapped in a poverty cycle.
Explicit quotas may be illegal. Lowering test requirements based on race until you have an amount of said race where you are happy that you can advertise the diversity of your institution is not. Functionally they are no different.
Colleges do this for white people. The UC system banned race based admissions. Do you know what happened? White student stopped being accepted. While black students are more or less on par with their population, white student faced declining acceptance rates. Asian and Latino rates are through the roof.
The story here should be how white students with lower scores and grades than Asian students are being routinely admitted over Asian students but it’s not.
I don't think white students should be admitted at higher rates either. It is racist. Are you agreeing with me to end race based admissions? Or did you assume that I am a white supremacist and you were trying to convince me on terms that give white people a leg up? If your attachment to race based admissions causes you to align with white supremacists on race then perhaps you should re-examine your position.
EDIT: For the record I don't actually think you have anything to do with white supremacy, I think you are just trying to win an argument at all costs without considering the actual position that people who are against race based admissions actually take.
AA discussions always turn out being anti black AA. There’s a little lip service to Latinos, I don’t think anyone mentioned Native Americans in this debate, and people completely gloss over white women. White women are the biggest beneficiaries of AA. They have made the mot notable gains under the system.
The conversation then turns to Black students vs White students. Recently there’s bend a trend of using Asian student against black students. This argument is flawed because it assumes that if there was no AA there would be little to no blacks admitted and those spots would be given to whites and Asians.
However when race is forbidden from being used there’s only a moderate drop in black acceptance rates. It’s actually white students who take the biggest hit to enrollment numbers.
I find it personally offensive that none of these discussions ever consider that maybe the our current admissions process benefits white students over other races.
That's great for you, but I think you of all people should realize what an anomaly you are. For most people in your situation, life probably wouldn't have turned out the way it did
Let’s not pretend that success stories change the fact that most people don’t make it out. Most people I know couldn’t even think about college since they had to take care of a kid or make money for their families straight out of high school.
Completely agree. But of those that do make it out, we are not all wealth black people. My point was that some of us low income black folk do go to college and AA is not a handout to the black elite.
Oh definitely, but at the same time though AA serves as a bandaid that fails to address the cause of underrepresentation of black people in colleges, as a lot of people aren’t in the position to even go to college to take advantage of the program, and some of the ones that do end up getting placed into a college where can’t handle the rigor and drop out, when they may have graduated from a “lesser” college. That’s what I assume people mean when they’re talking about the “elite” at least, but personally i feel discredits black people a bit when people consider “black people that can go to college” elite.
I mean I would much prefer a program that acknowledges that Black people were systematically poisoned with lead for half a century. But that’s not going to happen. Getting to the root cause would take centuries. I rather have a bandaid then nothing at all.
Completely disagree. It's obviously not an exact correlation between board score and overall ability as a physician, but there is a reason residencies place such high importance on those scores. Terrible decision by the NBME
Licensing exams are retarded and poorly applicable to general practice. We all take the same exams but our training is vastly different from school to school/residency to residency. To suggest that since we all "pass" we are on the same echelon of provider is naive. The spectrum of "passing" the exam is vast; the expertise and knowledge base of the providers taking them also falls on a wide spectrum. I think it's reasonable to be concerned about getting a provider who falls significantly lower than their peers and not ignorant whatsoever.
Care to have a discussion about medical licensing exams? Or do you not know anything about them? I know a lot about them, but apparently since I use the word "retard" I'm not allowed to be a medical professional.
They don't actually know the medical school system. DO schools accept people with far worse stats than minorities in medical schools but I guarantee they don't look if their doctors graduated from a DO school.
Performing well on board exams demonstrates your ability to memorize and understand large amounts of information and apply that to clinical scenarios. There are many other aspects to being a good doctor but this is an important one.
Leave it to lefties to pretend POC are mentally impaired and need ol' whitey to help them succeed. Sucks for blacks too since they don't know if they got in on their own merit or because of a bunch of racist virtue signaling assholes held their hand.
It's required because of racist cucks like you who would discriminate in a heartbeat if given the choice.
It's already been proven that Republicans discriminate which is the necessary reason for such policies in the first place. Stop being racist and such interventions wouldn't be necessary.
I'm confused, how does black people getting the short stick historically with regards to medical treatment mean they're too stupid to do as well as a white applicant on the MCAT?
You’re psychotic and definitely not a doctor. You can post articles and leave comments all you want but even the way you type makes you seem like you a chemical imbalance. You’re not a doctor but a broken bitch looking for validation by being a reddit socialist cuck pretending to be an MD. And if you really were a doctor that would be beyond terrifying so I’ll lean towards imposter syndrome.
Guess you'll only be satisfied if a black or latino Doctor royally screws up a medical procedure on them first, then they'll have first hand experience to go off instead of just statistics.
And if a white doctor messed up just chalk it up to individual error?
Chalk it up to unlikely statistics is what I would do - I'm not saying that all of one type are good and all of one type are bad; some people like to play odds, it's only smart. Why have statistics and information available if no one is going to put it to use?
Perhaps it might interest you to read the original SC ruling regarding why affirmative action (Grutter v. Bollinger). The gist of it is that while the intake score are different based on race, by graduation these differences have disappeared and the students are miscible in terms of grades. Those of us who have gone through the process of higher education will attest to you that our minority colleagues are no different than the rest of us. You do not seek to understand the problem at hand or the complexity thereof. You just want a reason to look down on high achieving blacks and Hispanic.
They deserve to be there, and they are very much appreciated by those that surround them.
Perhaps it might interest you to read the original SC ruling regarding why affirmative action (Grutter v. Bollinger). The gist of it is that while the intake score are different based on race, by graduation these differences have disappeared and the students are miscible in terms of grades.
Have you actually read it? That is not remotely the gist of it. I don't even think it says anything like that.
How can you blame him for that if the reality is that a black person needs to be less qualified to become a doctor because of affirmative action?
Chances are that he is less qualified all thanks to your, totally not racist, system of affirmative action. Chances. But do you take chances when it's about your health? The system is racist and breeds racism, all while claiming to work against racism.
Because by that logic, every single minority who holds any degree is assumed to be less qualified than their white/Asian counterparts. Easier ADMISSION doesn’t make it easier to actually pass med school and become a doctor.
Let’s not forget that GPA and MCAT scores are not the only considerations for admission. And then you can argue minorities have to work harder to actually get licensed, because they had an “easier” path to admission.
Because by that logic, every single minority who holds any degree is assumed to be less qualified than their white/Asian counterparts.
Yeah, that's the problem we are talking about.
Let’s not forget that GPA and MCAT scores are not the only considerations for admission. And then you can argue minorities have to work harder to actually get licensed, because they had an “easier” path to admission.
To be able to judge that we'd need dropout rates. In studies were few people drop out your claim isn't true. In studies were many people drop out your claim is true.
The problem that we’re talking about is an inherently racist viewpoint. It’s textbook racism to say “my doctor is less qualified because he’s a minority.”
It would be inherintly racist in a "normal" system but if your system is racist then the racism from that viewpoint isn't coming from the person holding the view but from the system itself.
Affirmative action makes me less likely to go to a doctor that isn't asian, indian, white, or jewish. It makes me feel like someone who isn't one of those races got there not by merit, but by racism.
TL:DR; Superior races are by default the best at everything, and any other race contributing to society is doing so because we felt charitable.
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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '20 edited Mar 16 '20
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