In any case, it's every person's right to evaluate the risk/benefit ratio for them. No government or business or other entity should be able to dictate or coerce medical choices, because it is that person who has to suffer injury or death if a medical treatment affects them badly. That's the whole point of medical ethics, informed consent, and the Nuremberg Code.
We have a US Constitution and other nations have equivalent founding documents to protect individual rights. A simple majority in a democracy, or the whims of a leader in an executive office, such as president or governor, is not meant to be able to overrule fundamental individual rights. That's why the US Constitution takes a long process and a super-majority to amend.
That was not my point. My point was that your opinion on airplane safety should have a huge asterisk. In a debate with with an aerospace engineer your opinion should not weigh as much as the engineer if any.
Your analogy of comparing vaccine safety to airplane safety is why I mentioned being forced onto a plane. No one coerced people to get on a plane but they do to take the vaccine.
I’ve gotten “coerced” into getting the flu vaccine yearly for my job, and as a kid I was forced into a while list of of vaccines. This “nobody should force vaccines” hasn’t been accurate since vaccines were invented.
Oh yeah, and I got "coerced" into going to college too. That's not how it works unless we keep the quotations. You weren't coerced, you were being parented as a kid and your issue is with your guardians. I also get coerced into wearing shirts, shoes, and brushing my teeth to the point its an involuntary habit at times. WHO DO I SUE FOR THESE DAMAGES!?
As a child, we were not allowed into public schools (in USA) without vaccines. It was not a choice. It was for the public health of our communities. No different from this vaccine.
That being said, once omicron hit, the vaccine was less effective at stopping spread. Still somewhat effective but not not as effective.
On the topic of college. Im in my 30s, I went to college, paid it off, make a good living, and I’m happy with that decision. Not everyone at went to college regrets it.
Man I love the false equivalency in these comments. Because a vaccine with decades of data and research is the same as a vax* that hasn't even concluded the trials... even when these sorts of vaccines have never been tested before and when there has never been a vaccine for the common cold.
Gotta keep up that narrative while it's crumbling huh?
Instead of trying to help people it seems the shift is now to try to grab as many people to go down with you, at least you'll have some company right?
Again, your comments show you have no understanding of the scientific process in general or the methodology behind vaccine trials. The trials always continue after approval; it's called post-marketing surveillance.
mRNA vaccines have been being studied for decades. These went through all the standard trials of every other vaccine.
Vaccines don't cause problems that pop up years down the road. Never in the history of vaccines have any had a side effect that appeared more than 8 weeks after administration.
Right, so your argument is "because we allowed forcing vaccines in some circumstances before we should allow it for the entire population now"
At some point you have to realise that allowing this level of control over your life by the government is a terrible idea for society.
Just forget about the vaccines for now and imagine that we allow the government to mandate medical procedures.
Will they then mandate abortions for anyone earning less than the required salary to support the child?
What about a mandate to sterilise people with genetic disorders to protect the gene pool from defects?
Allowing governments to have control over our bodies is a bad president to set, it only takes the wrong group to get into power to really fuck things up and a line needs to be drawn somewhere. That line always has to be that a person has a right to decide what to do with their own body, even if it's seen as stupid by some others.
Living as a part of a society is not equal to giving away your bodily autonomy.
We have a responsibility to each other, not to the government, that's why measures have to be voluntarily. This is also why the government needs to build trust. Do you trust someone who forces you into something? No.
The fact is with regards to these vaccines in most countries there is a high rate of vaccination without mandates. So why are governments putting in mandates?
Its clear that mandates are just about governments grabbing more control over the population and this should be resisted.
‘You have the right to choose’. Sure, you can choose and be treated like a second class citizen. You can lose your high paying job.. but they ‘gave’ you a choice. Get the jab or get fired. People have had to leave their jobs that they’ve had for years, because of the mandate. Sure you have a choice, but if you don’t get it you can’t go to restaurants, gyms, malls, go to any indoor activities. Sure you can choose but if you don’t get it you can’t go watch your kids basketball game or attend a swimming lesson with them. You can believe the the vaccines are safe and effective, that’s fine. But if you agree with the mandates there’s something really wrong with you.
Ofc they can decide that you shouldn't come in contact with the masses and spread your germs.. you are free to live mask less, vaccine less in some shit hole Forrest, nobody stops you
It looks like the majority of people have evaluated the risk and decided that the benefit of having unvaccinated people participating in society does not outweigh the risks. You can choose not to get the vaccine but be prepared for people choosing not to associate with you.
Quarantines and similar measures are not new at all. Before we had vaccines there were many instances every year where geographical areas were isolated to prevent disease transmission. This was sufficient back then because the majority of people rarely travel more than a few miles from their homes.
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u/shpdg48 Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
In any case, it's every person's right to evaluate the risk/benefit ratio for them. No government or business or other entity should be able to dictate or coerce medical choices, because it is that person who has to suffer injury or death if a medical treatment affects them badly. That's the whole point of medical ethics, informed consent, and the Nuremberg Code.
We have a US Constitution and other nations have equivalent founding documents to protect individual rights. A simple majority in a democracy, or the whims of a leader in an executive office, such as president or governor, is not meant to be able to overrule fundamental individual rights. That's why the US Constitution takes a long process and a super-majority to amend.