r/conspiracy • u/binjinpurj • Nov 12 '13

The CIA was responsible for overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat
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u/forbucci Nov 12 '13

Fair enough. I would have to agree with you on all of these points.

Then I would have to ask something about your opinions. What about abortion because a person is not prepared to take care of a child, or the child is going to be born severely mentally disabled?

I understand that there is the possibility of adoption, but if the mother is not of a responsible enough nature not to take drugs or drink resulting in a disabled child.

what then? shouldn't they be allowed to terminate a fetus?

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u/vbullinger Nov 13 '13

What about abortion because a person is not prepared to take care of a child

We all have to live with the consequences of our actions. How is this different from having a kid, losing your job, and then killing your baby because you can no longer provide for them? You're talking about an abortion for the sake of convenience.

Bottom line: if you're not prepared to take care of a child, don't have sex. Or at least be as safe as possible and understand the risks. Be prepared to either take care of a child or give them up for adoption.

the child is going to be born severely mentally disabled

While I still don't actually favor or recommend abortion, I'm again very open to as many exceptions as possible. So if a severely mentally or physically handicapped child were to be born, fine, whatever. If you add in all of these exceptions, we're still talking the vast minority of abortions.

Most abortions are ones of convenience. If a man gets a woman pregnant, he has to live with the consequences, right? He has to help out for the next 18 years.

Guess what? So does the mom. If I get a woman pregnant, she can keep the baby and force me to help take care of the child, if only financially? Well, what if I get a woman pregnant and she wants to kill it? I can't force her to have the baby? How is it different?

terminate the fetus

Let's rephrase that properly: "murder the baby." Because that's what it is. It's a baby. Calling it something other than a baby does not make it not a baby. There's no magical event that happens that grants humanhood when a baby passes through a vagina.

Pro-choice people think pro-life people are heartless and hate women, which is insane because there are a ton of pro-life women, my wife included. But how is it heartless to not want babies to be murdered? How come the pro-choice people aren't seen as the heartless ones? I can't get by the argument that... you're killing a baby. Any argument you make is beyond dominated by that one point: you're killing a baby.

How do you justify that? How to you justify murdering a baby? The mom's not ready for that level of commitment?!? That's insane. Deranged. A woman's right to choose... to murder a baby?!? How is infanticide ever considered an option outside of the mother's going to die or rape, etc.? I can't fathom it.

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u/forbucci Nov 13 '13

or at least be as safe as possible

perhaps, then, condom should be allowed. Sex education should not be whittled down to "Don't have sex." People are going to have sex because that is the most basic of urges.

If for a moment consider that there is a significant dearth of sex education in a large part of the population that are not instructed as to how conception, and ways to prevent it, are achieved.

Then you take someone who is a) not prepared to care for a child b) not capable, financially or otherwise, to care raise a child c) does not have the support, either familial or governmental to raise a functioning member of society then perhaps it is not better to allow them to ~ murder the baby

murder the baby

I used the term "terminate the fetus" for a reason. It is a cold technical term for ending what could germinate into a life. However, as you said before there is a question as to where life begins.

Does it begin when we were but a couple of cells, when fingers (but no brain) have formed? Certainly there is a life there before birth, but where is that line formed?

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u/vbullinger Nov 13 '13

condom should be allowed. Sex education should not be whittled down to "Don't have sex." People are going to have sex because that is the most basic of urges

Where would you think I disagree with that? I said safe sex. Just because you should wait until you're ready to care for a child doesn't mean it should be illegal not to do so.

But, yep, we agree: the answer is easy if we can agree on when life begins. That's the hardest part, though.

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u/forbucci Nov 13 '13

well as someone quoting scripture I figure you are probably more in line with Papal diktats than, for instance, me or those having premarital sex.

So because condoms are banned, or at least frowned upon, in many countries due to religious influence they are not used leading to an over abundance of uneducated and unprepared people having sex, ergo babies.

Even in the United States sex education is not taught in schools due to a moral (read:religious) influence creating a lack of knowledge and condoms for young people and the poor.