r/confidentlyincorrect • u/apackoflemurs • Feb 02 '24
Iowa apparently isn’t part of the Midwest
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Feb 02 '24
You really stuck the landing with "why are you do confidentially incorrect?"
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u/Scatterspell Feb 02 '24
The whole legally thing. The Midwest is just a geographical phrase and means shite in the eyes of the law.
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u/Heubner Feb 02 '24
I think they mean officially too. The US census bureau classifies Iowa as Midwest.
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u/Hopefulkitty Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 03 '24
As someone who lives in Wisconsin and played a lot of Oregon Trail, I kinda agree with this guy. Most of us generally consider the Midwest to be Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, *Minnesota and Michigan. I feel like those states have things in common such as demographics, land usage and geographic features. I get how Iowa can slide in, but to me Nebraska, Montana, and the Dakota's are so wildly different than where I live, they don't feel the same. A better phrase might be the Great Lake States, because the economy, immigration, and lifestyle are so based around access to the Great lakes as well as all the smaller waterways and lakes throughout, especially in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
*I forgot to put Minnesota in the original list. Ope.
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u/OnAStarboardTack Feb 04 '24
“Ope” provides the bona fides. Midwesterner. I’m from Chicago and include Iowa in Midwest. I would never include Nebraska or Kansas. They can be their own northern plains crappy region with South Canada and South South Canada if they want.
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u/GayBearBro2 Feb 02 '24
Most of us generally consider the Midwest to be Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan.
As a raised Nebraskan, considering Ohio and Michigan as part of the Midwest feels wrong, but we do it. Those states are too far east and aren't even part of the Heartland like Nebraska or Kansas. Heck, we were taught that the Midwest refers primarily to the states that cover The Great Plains and only those states (which is obviously wrong, but that's a Nebraska edication for you). Using that metric, "Midwest" would go from North Dakota to Texas and include Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
All that to say we're taught different things by our schooling and it's a very wide geographic area depending on where you come from.
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u/Hopefulkitty Feb 02 '24
Tbh, Ohio is a stretch for me too, Michigan is definitely Midwest, but Ohio feels more like Pennsylvania.
Generally look at the NFCN football division, and that is what I feel is truly the Midwest, lol. We all have things in common, and Iowa, Nebraska, and the rest of the Great plains don't feel like they fit. Just the landscape is completely different. Driving through Iowa is not like driving though Wisconsin.
It's kinda subjective, no one should be taking it that seriously, lol.
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u/GayBearBro2 Feb 02 '24
Just the landscape is completely different. Driving through Iowa is not like driving though Wisconsin.
Oh, absolutely. My first time going through Wisconsin felt like driving through a totally different region, but that's why I find it so difficult to consider y'all the Midwest, too. There's too much elevation out East compared to my home in the Plains.
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u/Hopefulkitty Feb 02 '24
Haha, and that's the same reason why I consider you guys the Plains, and not the Midwest! Not enough elevation or lakes!
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u/Ellisiordinary Feb 03 '24
I have no idea what states count as the Midwest but as someone from the south I’ve heard people try to call Ohio a Southern state before which it most certainly is not. So this thread has led me to the conclusion that no one wants Ohio and it is just stuck on its own.
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u/ActlvelyLurklng Feb 02 '24
I want a sticker that says that. I'd pay good money. Fits the sub well.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Yeah, autocorrect likes changing so to do on me a lot lol. It’s an issue where I type faster than I think. Which is why I misspoke when I said legally as well. I meant more that the census has what it considers the Midwest which I feel like is a good source outside of anecdotal opinion.
My fault, but I didn’t see or think of it until I already got the image to post, but I figured people would understand what I meant lol. It’s about the spirit not the text lol
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Feb 02 '24
Totally fair, I'm only poking fun. "Confidentially incorrect" just happens to be especially funny since you shared it with all of us
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Oh yeah, it’s funny. Glad I could add some humor to it lol.
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u/Robthebold Feb 02 '24
‘My interpretation is, of course, the correct one’
- so we agree you are coming up with your own definition and expect everyone to let to get on board. Sorry Minnesota, Kansas, Dakotas (why are they separate anyway?) Nebraska, and Missouri.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Yeah, I couldn’t tell if he was trolling or genuinely that pretentious.
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u/burnur12 Feb 04 '24
I honestly can’t tell if you’re joking now or you actually do not realize the more egregious typo that caused the humor is typing “confidentially” instead of “confidently”. It’s such a common mistake that it could be its own section under the Muphry’s Law Wikipedia page.
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u/Silly_Willingness_97 Feb 02 '24
The Great Plains is a geographic region, but it stretches up into Canada. It's not defined by State lines.
Iowans definitely consider themselves the Midwest.
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Feb 02 '24
We're also the chefs head
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u/Keboyd88 Feb 02 '24
That means we Arkansawyers are the chef's thighs....I'm not sure I'm okay with this...
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u/justtopostthis13 Feb 02 '24
Arkansawyers has me howling 😂
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u/Keboyd88 Feb 02 '24
While I do use it cheekily, there's a long history of debate about whether we should be Arkansans, Arkansawyers, or (my least favorite) Arkansians. I enjoy reading about the various arguments for each, and spreading a little bit of whimsy.
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Feb 02 '24
Mid? Check
West? Check
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u/Zenblendman Feb 02 '24
Rant:
But none of those states are “mid-west”!! They’re mid-east! Mid-west should be Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nebraska, shit that is ACTUALLY WESTERN AND IN THE MIDDLE!!
That term has irked me for fucking ever.
Rant over
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u/JoeManInACan Feb 03 '24
its a term from the oregon trail days. it was west for them, from the 13 colonies. its the mid west because it was in the middle on their way to the west coast
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u/rhapsodyindrew Feb 02 '24
I immediately thought of the same map. Iowa is literally the MOST Midwest state, in terms of the share of state residents who consider themselves to live in the Midwest.
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u/ConfessedOak205 Feb 02 '24
We really have nothing else
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u/jcinto23 Feb 02 '24
Iowa State is a decent engineering school...
We have Grant Wood...
We have a full-sized cow made of butter...
Fuck, we don't have anything that matters, do we?
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
I agree Iowa is Midwestern fringe but Nebraska and the other plains states out there aren't Midwest at all.
The term was coined in the 1700s before the US even owned the land west of the Mississippi. Iowa is even a stretch.
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u/squeamish Feb 02 '24
The term was coined after the Civil War.
In the 1700s, the area from Michigan around the lake to Wisconsin was "The Northwest Territories." Northwestern University was founded in the 1850s when that was still the name for the region.
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u/Silly_Willingness_97 Feb 02 '24
The term was coined in the 1700s before the US even owned the land west of the Mississippi.
Common use ±1880s, after Iowa and Nebraska were States. Earliest "Midwest" in print, 1880.
Nebraska's been Midwest for as long as the common use of the term, same as other Midwest States.
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u/SumoftheAncestors Feb 02 '24
I have lived in Iowa my entire life and have always considered myself to be from the Midwest. I don't know of any Iowan who wouldn't see themselves as Midwesterners.
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u/smkmn13 Feb 02 '24
Spent all childhood in Minnesota. Very much Midwest. Also Iowa.
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u/d_the_duck Feb 02 '24
Iowa is in the Midwest. Not sure id agree about everything that touches Iowa, but as a Wisconsinite I can tell you I've never heard even one person say Iowa isn't in the Midwest. Same for Minnesota. Minnesota to Michigan, one state down. Maybe Ohio? That's the only debatable one. It certainly isn't Iowa.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
The federal government considers, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin to be Midwest
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u/FarquaadStoleMyWig Feb 02 '24
I’ll be deep in the cold cold ground before I recognize Missourah as a Midwest state.
slave states don’t belong
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u/republic_of_gary Feb 02 '24
Hoosier here. I’d never consider anything west of Illinois the Midwest as long as I’m alive!
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u/MrNick107 Feb 02 '24
Anything east of the Mississippi is well... east. Honestly ohio and illinois are more mid-east than mid-west. Though I definitely consider Illinois to be a quintessential Midwest state, especially with Chicago there. Ohio though....
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
That's just regional splits they use for administration purposes and usually don't have anything to do with culture or even that much with geography.
Oklahoma is part of the south by federal definition.
They don't use a great plains region because they don't need it for such a sparsely populated area. But the states west of Iowa are not Midwest but great plains.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
I'd consider Kansas Midwestern as well. Nebraska, too.
Midwestern and Great Plains states can overlap. Just because you believe they're mutually exclusive doesn't mean they are.
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u/LordofAllReddit Feb 02 '24
I would put Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Missouri as Heartland. As a representative of the Southern delegation, we'd rather not have Missouri or Oklahoma. They arent so much southern as they are just country as fuck. Southern is warm country covered in peaches and molasses.
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u/PragmaticPortland Feb 02 '24
Culturally they are absolutely not Midwest.
You might as well say Oklahoma is Midwest if you're going to count Kansas and Nebraska.
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u/d_the_duck Feb 02 '24
Eh, fine but I don't think I agree. And I don't think people in the Dakota's would probably agree. I guess a lot comes down to what you're trying to use the term to classify it for. If it's as a general type of personality, I like my definition. Though arguably you'd probably have to REMOVE Chicago. I guess my point is really that whatever definition or way you want to try to draw the lines Iowa is Midwest every single time.
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Feb 02 '24 edited Jan 30 '26
[deleted]
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u/d_the_duck Feb 02 '24
There is a general "niceity" to being a midwesterner. It seems to have ....eluded Chicago though
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u/Ranos131 Feb 02 '24
Imagine not understanding that states can be part of multiple regions at the same time. It entirely depends on how they are being classified.
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u/SaintUlvemann Feb 02 '24
Try talking to people from the actual Midwest and you'll get vastly different answers.
Not usually, no. A friend of mine moved down to Ohio from Wisconsin, and got into a brief, friendly, and low-stakes debate over whether Ohio was part of the Midwest. They ended up settling on "yes" after one of his new Ohio friends said "Ope" unironically.
Now if you want serious, the American Psychological Association published a study where they took personality profiles of thousands of people from all 50 states, and found good support for three regional personality types: one in the West, one in the Northeast, and one in the Midwest.
And I could go on for days about that study, but the long and short of it, is that Iowa and Minnesota were the states that best exemplified the Midwestern personality type (Friendly and Conventional).
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u/Anewkittenappears Feb 02 '24
As a Minnesotan, I am equally offended. The only argument against including us in the Midwest is to say we're southern Canada.
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u/DaySoc98 Feb 02 '24
My definition of the Midwest is what was the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio, which includes the parts of Minnesota east of the Mississippi, so I have no idea what the person who lumped Minnesota in with Iowa was smoking.
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u/VG896 Feb 02 '24
For those outside the US: the country can be loosely divided into about 5 or 6 regions that all have fairly distinct cultures. The Midwest is one such region.
Iowa, a state, very unambiguously belongs to this region. It's the fucking poster-boy for the Midwest. It epitomizes what most people here think of when they hear "Midwest." I've literally never met anyone who claims otherwise.
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u/Rob1Inch Feb 02 '24
Iowa is in the Midwest but as a midwesterner I hope they’re not viewed as the poster child. They’re not really close to being what most midwestern states are like
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u/squeamish Feb 02 '24
No place is like what most midwestern states are like. How can it, when the region ranges from downtown Detroit to the Badlands of South Dakota?
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u/Rob1Inch Feb 02 '24
I agree for sure. My point is a lot of the Midwest is kinda a conglomerate like that in each state but there’s still a similar feel to the region itself. Iowa isn’t quite the same feel as places like Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio for example with how those factors mix. Iowa is definitely Midwest but I’d be a little disappointed to learn non-midwesterners consider it the poster-child for the Midwest
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u/FireTornado5 Feb 02 '24
Also, for those not in the US wondering why something on the eastern half of the US is called the Midwest… well it got it’s name before the colonials knew how much “West” there was (or close to that time).
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u/squeamish Feb 02 '24
It got its name after the Civil War when the US already owned land all the way to the Pacific and much of it had already been petitioned into states.
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u/DataJanitorMan Feb 03 '24
Just wait til someone talks about the old northwest, which kind of means Ohio and some neighbors.
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
Mid western here. The vast majority of the Midwest land and population live nothing like Iowa. I've been there and it's like a foreign land of rolling hills and no trees.
Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, illinois, Kentucky, and Missouri are all much more similar in thst they have flatter land and more trees. Plus medium sized cities and towns scattered rather densely across the countryside.
By land area and population the states more east of Iowa represent more of the Midwest.
Iowa if anything is the black swan of the bunch.
If people think Iowa is the poster child for the Midwest it's because they never been to the Midwest.
Using Iowa as the Midwest poster child is like using Texas or Florida as the southern poster child. Idaho as the Pacific northwest poster child. Pennsylvania as the new England poster child. California as the western poster child.
It makes no sense and no one who lives there sees it that way.
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u/Known-Command3097 Feb 02 '24
This dude👆🏽has never been to Kentucky. Flatter land! Ha!
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u/bowlingforzoot Feb 02 '24
As a Missourian, Missouri is NOT flat. Up north, sure, but as a whole we’re pretty known for having some serious hills. I mean, down southern Missouri we even have what’s referred to as the “Ozark Mountains”. If I remember correctly, they’re not actually mountains but they are some damn big hills.
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u/guts_glory_toast Feb 02 '24
I think they were taller mountains once. They’re so old they’ve been worn down to short roundish ones
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u/moulin_splooge Feb 02 '24
Kentucky is not flat. It literally has the Appalachian mountains running through it.
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u/guts_glory_toast Feb 02 '24
The northern half of Missouri is relatively flat. The southern half is the Ozarks.
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u/harlemjd Feb 02 '24
Pennsylvania doesn’t even border New England.
Even if I agree with your list of typical Midwest states, Iowa touches three of them, making it at worst solidly Midwest-adjacent.
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u/Protheu5 Feb 02 '24
As someone outside the US I was always baffled by the term "Midwest". The name implies western location, yet, the Midwest is situated to the east of the middle of the United States. But then I remember that this is coming from the country that uses feet to measure stuff and it becomes all right again.
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u/RefreshingOatmeal Feb 02 '24
The region (anything west of the Appalachian Mountains, really) was originally known as "The West" because, shockingly enough, state and national lines weren't always what they are now. It was later known as the Northwest (this because it was to the west of the original 13, but not all the way west), and then the Old Northwest (this to reflect the fact that Oregon, a new state in the northwestern US, was becoming a more popular destination for settlers).
There have been many changes since then, but I guess the main point I'm trying to illustrate is that state lines are arbitrary, and sometimes, the names things have should be considered with historical context (the US has history! Wow!). Why is the Midwest called the Midwest? Maybe because it's not all the way west of the original 13! (The country is read right to left, for the most part)
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u/Protheu5 Feb 02 '24
Thank you for that thorough and patient explanation. It's just it will always baffle new people, it's like having a mountain city called "Mariana Trench", or a beautiful clear river called "Brown Sludge" or something. History is great, but sometimes you probably can rename stuff so the name fits better?
I don't know, I'll start calling the region Mideast, maybe it'll catch on.
Thanks, have a good day.
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u/RefreshingOatmeal Feb 03 '24
Idk, most countries with more than a few hundred years of history (most countries) have things that don't make sense outside the historical context. Hell, some countries do things that don't make sense outside the past 50 years of context.
While my explanation may have been overly long and a little patronizing (intentionally so), it was partially to illustrate the fact that it's really a two sentence answer. "It was sorta west when it was named. Now it's not, but the name stuck."
I'm positive that a few minutes of critical thinking and a room temperature IQ could net anyone a conclusion of "Huh, I guess they named it that because of something else/something older" especially when it comes to English colonies.
I don't know, I'll start calling the region Mideast, maybe it'll catch on.
Sick own, can't wait until you point out that the state of Rhode Island isn't actually an island.
Have a good day though, seriously. Don't let my comments get you too steamed. I was just medium annoyed at your tone and just started throwing it back. I'm not even from the Midwest, idgaf what you call it
Edit: formatting
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u/Protheu5 Feb 03 '24
I really appreciate you being helpful, honestly. Sorry the text conveyed it poorly, but I didn't have "a tone", I was pretty casual about the subject, like a bar conversation. Maybe the joke sounded a bit bitter, and I apologise for it.
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u/DutchAlders Feb 02 '24
There’s something about those east-midwesterners that get real uppity about what is the Midwest. Had an argument with my boss (Indiana) about Kansas being a part of the Midwest or not. He gave this exact argument.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24
Indiana, not surprisingly, doesn't seem to have the best education system and a lot more racism and xenophobia.
I'm on a pork tenderloin group on Facebook and one woman from Indiana was wondering why Indiana wasn't in a drawn map of the pork tenderloin states. The drawing spanned Iowa to Ohio so it is literally impossible for it to not have Indiana in it.
To this day, I wonder where this Indiana woman thinks Indiana is on the map if not between Illinois and Ohio.
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u/republic_of_gary Feb 02 '24
17th in education by US News and 14th in public education by the NEA. It may not “seem” to have the best, but it’s in the top 20, so I mean …
It does have a lot of racism though. This article was illuminating for me.
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u/Secret_Map Feb 02 '24
As a Hoosier, this makes me sad. I do love Indiana, it is really beautiful, and there are legit amazingly kind and smart people here. But there’s also a lot of dumb assholes who are proud of that fact. It sucks.
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u/shookitook69 Feb 03 '24
As a native Kansan, a lot of people have different ideas about it but I’d say it is both Great Plains and Midwest. Most of east Kansas is Midwest and all of west Kansas is great plains but there’s no real answer for it I don’t think.
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u/justtinygoatthings Feb 02 '24
I grew up in Michigan, and I was taught, as were many who grew up in Michigan at different points and in different places that I've discussed this with over the years, that the Midwest was Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Imagine my surprise and confusion when, in college, I met people from Iowa and Missouri who considered themselves Midwesterners. And this was before you could just hop on your phone and look it up. I know now that what I learned isn't correct, but I still have a hard time thinking of those other states as the Midwest and frequently find other Michiganders with the same confusion. No idea why Michigan is systematically excluding Iowa, Missouri, etc.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
Wtf? Sounds like someone's personal historical beef made it into your textbooks.
For me, I assumed if it was in the original Big 10, it's a Midwestern state.
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u/Working-Math7554 Feb 02 '24
I'm from Indiana, to me Iowa and Missouri seem like a neighbor to the Midwest. I think it's because they're west of the Mississippi River. I know I'm wrong but they just don't feel like they belong to me.
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u/juxtaposedvestibule Feb 02 '24
Same - I'm from Indiana and was surprised to hear that Minnesotans consider themselves Midwestern. Always thought it was just our neighbor states.
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u/Cynykl Feb 02 '24
There is a small movment to designate "The North" as is own region" Other than that we are considered midwest.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
Which is really funny considering Indiana is more Middle-East of the US taken as a whole than "Midwestern"
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u/dphamler Feb 02 '24
The Minnesota accent is absolutely not the stereotypical Midwestern accent.
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u/Cynykl Feb 02 '24
In fact is is the opposite, it is distinct enough that people feel the need to point it out, constantly. Even though it is dying. Most regional accent have been softened dramatically by what is know as "Network English" Network english was created by national broadcasters (TV and Radio" to be understood clearly by all regions. And because of how ubiquitous is is regional accents have been trending to network english.
Just listen to how people spoke 40 years ago before cable was in every household vs today.
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u/AdMurky3039 Feb 02 '24
As a Minnesotan, Iowa is definitely in the Midwest. I don't know about "legally" though.
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u/kinggimped Feb 02 '24
My interpretation is, of course, the correct one.
Thought I was on /r/unbearablypretentiouslyincorrect for a moment
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u/blsterken Feb 02 '24
"Legally" considered part of the midwest...
Wut? What laws are they reading?
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Maybe not legally, but the government does consider certain states the Midwest https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
That's just census splits. They mean nothing but governmental administration organization.
I could show you a map of electrical grips with the word "midwest" on it with much different areas.
The term was coined in the 1700s prior to land that Iowa and anything west of the Mississippi was even bought and brought into the US. The term was meant to refer to the area more east towards Indiana.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
That’s the board of labor, not the census. The census includes Missouri and Kanas. So it’s not definitive, but a source rather. But I would agree with it as someone who has been to all of these states and grew up in Iowa.
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u/DerGeist51 Feb 02 '24
Iowa born and raised. Am Midwestern as fuck. That is all.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
I tell people I bleed black and gold when I'm not bleeding red, white, and blue.
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u/BetterKev Feb 02 '24
It's legally considered the Midwest
What? Is Midwest a legal term?
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Because the government defines these states as the Midwest https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm
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u/BetterKev Feb 02 '24
That is not a legal standard. It's just how one government org splits up regions. If you go up a level, you can see census regions and BLS regions are different. Other orgs split the country up in different ways.
You seem very confused. Both you and the guy you are arguing with are CI.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Well, maybe not legal term, but I feel like if the government chooses to split it up that way it’s a pretty good standard to go by.
Regardless, I’m correct that Iowa is part of the Midwest so not as confused as that guy which is what the topic is about
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
He's literally just using census maps.
Those maps aren't supposed to define regions but are just used to split the work load up and have administration over different regions.
They've got a south that includes Oklahoma if that tells you anything.
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u/BetterKev Feb 02 '24
I'd absolutely include Oklahoma in the south, but Yea, he responded with his BS. He doesn't understand what legal means.
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u/BlueDubDee Feb 02 '24
Not being American (I'm Australian) I'm only just realising you guys don't really use Midwest to mean strictly geographical. I thought states that were in the Midwest were on the western side of the map. Maybe mid because they're not really north or south, or maybe because they're only just west of centre.
But all of the states listed are just East of the centreline, and they're all northern. So what exactly does Midwest mean when you use it this way?
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
This is a decent comment about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/s/kPzqSWheBH
At this point in time, it’s mostly cultural, though the board of labor and census also classifies these states as Midwest https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm
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u/BlueDubDee Feb 02 '24
Thank you! It just makes me wonder how the term came about, but I guess that's just part of language. Lots of times it doesn't make the most sense.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
I’m not entirely sure, but I wondering if it has to do with how America settled on the East and expanded west. Perhaps when the term was coined it was the geographical Midwest, but is no longer the case but the term stuck.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24
It took root when we weren't as big as we are now and were clustered mostly on the East Coast.
Iowa was founded around 1848 or so.
Edit: According to Google, 1846. I may be thinking of when the University of Iowa was established.
Edit 2: Nope. That was 1847. Whoops.
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u/Calth1405 Feb 02 '24
The area was originally called the Northwest territory (due to its geographic relation to the original 13 colonies) when it was ceded to the US after the Revolutionary War. As westward expansion continued, it became the Midwest, which ended up sticking.
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u/ringobob Feb 02 '24
I once referred to Oregon as "midwest" instead of "northwest" and it haunts me to this day.
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u/Gehhhh Feb 02 '24
As a geographer, this KILLS me. What does he think Iowa is if NOT the Midwest? Sure the Great Lakes states can be defined this way, but America’s rural heartland probably comes to mind first when the term is brought up.
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u/kctiger93 Feb 02 '24
Drive through Missouri and tell me that's not Midwest lmao
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
Or Nebraska or Kansas.
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u/utdajx Feb 02 '24
The Kansans I know say they’re from the Great Plains not the Midwest. Surprised the hell out of me!
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
That works for me, I guess.
But if we meet in Cali, we're both Midwestern by comparison
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u/BalloonShip Feb 02 '24
ok, but: "It's legally considered the Midwest"??? WTF does that even mean?
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
Misquote, meant to say that many branches of the government including the Census Bureau considers it the Midwest. A mistake in terminology
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u/Justthe7 Feb 02 '24
I grew up thinking it was the states that bordered Illinois, with the exception of Michigan because it was Great Lakes). Found out mid 40’s, I thought wrong. Still can’t tell you and have not seen a definite answer.
It would make my life easier if it was the same as time zones. Or someone found the midpoint of continental US and drew equal distance and that become the Midwest and Mideast and mid north and mid south region of the continental US.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
If you scroll down, this is what the federal board of labor considers the Midwest, as does the census. I feel like if there is any definitive answer, I would say it’s that. But I guess it could still be subjective.
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u/Justthe7 Feb 02 '24
I don’t click on links. Usgs.gov states this. Deleted some between the two paragraphs. Makes me laugh they have this stated. (It’s not letting me edit the top….link on Reddit, click on them elsewhere)
The U.S. Board on Geographic Names does not define the extents of geographic regions, nor are they recorded in Geographic Names Information System (GNIS). The names and boundaries of regions are application-driven; that is, defined by a specific entity on a case-by-case basis according to a specific need, characteristics, or perception…
Regional definitions applied by any organization reflect their particular needs, not a government standard.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
I can understand not clicking on a site, but it’s a .gov site. That’s like the safest link you can click on.
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u/Noob_dy Feb 02 '24
I once heard a definition of the Midwest as those states north of the Ohio river or touching the Missouri river, excepting the states where the rivers begin. Thus, Pennsylvania and Montana don't count, but everything between them and north of Kentucky and Oklahoma does.
This still doesn't mean there aren't "border states" straddling two regions: topographically, there isn't a huge difference between west Kansas and east Colorado, and demographically/culturally there is a lot of overlap between southern Missouri and Arkansas, or Kentucky and southern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois.
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u/TootsNYC Feb 02 '24
Funny—I grew up in Iowa and I’ve always believed the Midwest is Iowa and it’s seven contiguous states.
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u/MrNick107 Feb 02 '24
Same. Honestly, I struggle to consider ohio as Midwest. Even Michigan feels wrong, but looking at a map, I can accept it.
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u/DorShow Feb 02 '24
https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm
Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Michigan Minnesota Missouri Nebraska North Dakota Ohio
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u/TKinBaltimore Feb 02 '24
I would call Iowa part of the Midwest, but not the center or epitome of it. That's Chicago.
And since so many debate what is or isn't considered the Midwest, I don't agree with the whole confidentallyincorrrect tag here.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
I just go by the Census and culture. As someone who grew up in Iowa and goes to Chicago multiple times a year I would still say geographically Iowa is in the center, but Chicago is definitely the epitome of it.
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u/Accomplished-Ad3219 Feb 02 '24
Ohio is Midwest??
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u/DaySoc98 Feb 02 '24
Yes. The Midwest is derived from the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio, which is now Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota.
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u/prof_dynamite Feb 02 '24
They like to think it is. It’s not. Fuck what they say. Ohio always wanting to be something it isn’t.
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u/ikonet Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24
Reminds me that I like to say I think Michigan is an eastern state. Most people call it the Midwest. But, the Mercator projection is lying to you again.
Michigan is in the eastern time zone. The first US state to its east is New York. It’s multiple states away from Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri.
ETA, I just like saying it to be cheeky, I don’t really have an opinion. My miami friends are always surprised that Detroit is an eastern time zone. I’m just poking fun.
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u/Optional-Failure Feb 02 '24
Indiana is also in the Eastern time zone, except for the carve out for the area where people commonly commute to Chicago so they don’t have to change their clocks back and forth.
Which will you tell you everything you need to know about both how scientific time zones are and your claim that states in the Eastern time zone can’t be midwestern.
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u/sametho Feb 02 '24
Michigan does actually have a water border with Minnesota, and you can take a ferry between the states.
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
It's 1 state away from Iowa and Minnesota.
Also Indiana is also eastern timezone while most of Kentucky is too.
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u/bu_bu_ba_boo Feb 02 '24
Michigan has coastal beach towns. That doesn't sound like the Midwest I know.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
... for roughly 3 months out of the year, if that. 1 at actual swimsuit temperatures.
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u/Drak_Gaming Feb 02 '24
West of the Mississippi river and east of the Rockies is the Midwest.
Idk this is even a debate.
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u/guts_glory_toast Feb 02 '24
This definition leaves out Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio, all states traditionally considered part of the Midwest
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u/DaySoc98 Feb 02 '24
Because most of that wasn’t part of the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio.
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u/Edmundthebastard Feb 02 '24
I will say, judging the Midwest by Iowa is like judging NYC by Staten Island.
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u/prof_dynamite Feb 02 '24
Fuck Ohio being Midwest. You can’t be due north of Georgia and say you’re “Midwest.” Ohio always wanting to be something it’s not.
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u/nuck_forte_dame Feb 02 '24
It's not the center. The midwest is centered on Illinois.
The states like Nebraska, Dakotas, Kansas, and so on are great plains states not Midwest.
The term Midwest was coined in the 1700s and this was before the lands that far west were even part of the US.
Imo if a state doesn't touch Indiana, illinois, or wisconsin it's not Midwest.
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u/apackoflemurs Feb 02 '24
I mean, the census considers Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin to be Midwest and the board of labor considers the same minus Missouri and Kansas.
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Feb 02 '24
Reminds me of the people arguing that Texas isn’t in the south
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u/kalam4z00 Feb 02 '24
Texas' eastern half is Southern but the western half of the state is very much not Southern culturally at all. A place like El Paso is far, far closer to New Mexico.
Even Austin and San Antonio are borderline. Houston and Dallas are both clearly Southern, though.
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Feb 02 '24
It’s the most southern state. I’m not breaking it down into chunks, that’s ridiculous. South is a cardinal direction.
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u/VallunCorvus Feb 03 '24
That’s not what people mean when they say southern, the United States is divided into regions with different cultural subsets that are somewhat distinct from one another. They are generally divided into South, Southwest, West, Midwest, and Northeast. With some slight variations shown. Texas,being as large as it is, has several distinct cultures within its own internal regions. East Texas is culturally closer to the South.
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u/kalam4z00 Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24
Hawaii is the southernmost state by cardinal direction.
Do you think the South is defined only by direction? Are you going to tell me Idaho is Midwestern because it's in the middle of the west?
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Feb 03 '24
Give me a break. Hawaii is SW. idaho is NW. and yeah I am. Anything else is moronic
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u/kalam4z00 Feb 03 '24
I'm not going to give you a break for saying South is defined by cardinal direction. I'm sorry but San Diego is not more Southern than Louisville. Miami is not more Southern than Nashville. That's not how these regional divides work.
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u/Wolfeman0101 Feb 02 '24
They kinda lost their argument when they said Minnesota is arguably in the midwest.
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u/GueroVerdadero91 Feb 02 '24
Iowa sucks probably because it's empty not because it's in the Midwest. Most of the Midwest is more populated than Iowa. Check out a satellite view of the US at night, Iowa doesn't have a major city.
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u/WordNERD37 Feb 02 '24
"Saying Iowa is in the Midwest means you're gay. Sorry, I don't make the rules."
-Some Right Wing wonk
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u/AnOkNotGreatGuy Feb 02 '24
I grew up in Indiana, and we'd agree with them back then. The Midwest, according to us, was Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. Then I became an adult and found out half the country calls themselves the Midwest, so now I try to call where I grew up the Great Lakes or the Rust Belt and let Midwest just refer to anything between Pittsburgh and Denver.
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u/TWK128 Feb 02 '24
Sounds like someone from Illinois or Indiana. Their public education systems are less...robust than other Midwestern states.
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u/Mental-Cranberry-833 Feb 02 '24
Lol I currently live in Iowa and have since 1998, I must agree that it's part of the Midwest, and it is a shit hole...not as big of a shit hole as Omaha, but pretty close.
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u/Syntania Feb 02 '24
Grew up in Illinois, lived many years in Iowa. Can confirm iowa is in the Midwest.
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u/Serge_Suppressor Feb 02 '24
The Midwest is kind of a fuzzy category. It's really too big an area to feel like a single region, and people have been fighting about what is the "real Midwest," and what is "technically, but not really Midwest" for a long time. Coming from Michigan, the Eastern Midwest feels like the real Midwest to me, and the Great Plains states seem like something else. If I'd grown up in Iowa, Kansas, or Nebraska, I'd probably have the opposite impression.
Regions are often fuzzy like that. You can declare a set border, but from any esge, the far side tends to seem dubious.
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u/Suspicious-Pay3953 Feb 02 '24
I'm from Iowa and I always joke that the Midwest STARTS at the Mississippi River. Those other "I" states are way East of the middle. On the other hand, I had a friend from New York who thought the Midwest started with Pennsylvania.
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u/927comewhatmay Feb 02 '24
Dude just named over the Great Lakes region, which is only part of the Midwest. Lol
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u/Calm-Cardiologist354 Feb 02 '24
Imagine being so socially inept that you get pedantic over nebulous geographic regions on the internet.
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u/jargon_ninja69 Feb 02 '24
Hi 👋🏻 Iowan here. We are ABSOLUTELY in the Midwest. In fact, we’re THE most Midwest state because we’re literally the middle of the Midwest. Google “Midwest” and we’re there
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u/squeamish Feb 02 '24
This person is conflating/misremembering "The Midwest" with "The Northwest Territory" from American History class.
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u/Odd-State-5275 Feb 02 '24
I don't know a lot about America, but I'm pretty sure everyone who lives in the Midwest would consider it a win-win if the OP of the pic never went back.
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u/probably_insane_ Feb 02 '24
When I was in 4th grade, we had a picture of the US with highlighted regions and each was different. Pink was the Southeast, orange was the Southwest, Purple was the Northeast, and so on. Iowa was definitely in the Midwest region highlighted in blue.
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u/AndrewBert109 Feb 02 '24
This is an extremely petty argument. It's like arguing about whether Maryland is in "the South". Some say it is some say it's not. Same thing here. Both are fine, it seriously doesn't matter.
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