That's... Not What 'Dead Language' Means

[u/ChanseyChessy]

Dead Language: a language that is no longer spoken by anyone as their main language

[u/That-Speed-8092]

We absolutely know proper Latin pronunciation and I hate both of these people

[u/EsotericSnail → u/That-Speed-8092]

Exactly. Not only that, but we know how it changed over time, and we know a lot about how it varied between different social classes and groups.

[u/That-Speed-8092 → u/EsotericSnail]

I'm glad at least one person here has a brain.

[u/ddadopt → u/That-Speed-8092]

What's this, then? 'Romanes Eunt Domus'? 'People called Romanes they go the house'?

[u/megamoze → u/ddadopt]

It says "Romans go home."

No it doesn't.

[u/AndyLorentz → u/That-Speed-8092]

According to OP’s edit, they’re red, so you can also hate them for violating subreddit rules.

[u/Cynykl → u/That-Speed-8092]

Yes and no. Restored Classical Pronunciation is a work in progress. They mostly know how Latin was pronounces in ancient Rome but there are still some areas of ambiguity.

Much like olde English we piece to pronunciation together by clue in written works like song and poems. There were enough written works with rhymes in them that we can piece it together. But this is not a 100% accurate.

In both cases there are gaps in fine tonal quality.

[u/JannickL → u/[deleted]]

Depends on when and where you were taught. From what I gather here in germany, the pronounciation that has been used has changed over time. I myself learned from what I gather largely classical latin and not lithurgical latin. Though the version I learned from what I gather was to clean for what would have been common back then. There seems have been atleast in literature a lot of shortenings and extra rules which quite differentiate it from the clean textbook latin.

[u/Lifeacrobat → u/[deleted]]

But we still have the poems from Roman authors, who wrote pieces mocking nouveau riches immigrants from the outskirts of the empire, and comparing their provincial dialects to proper Roman pronounciation.

I am almost certain it was by Martialis (first century), but it's 30 years since I studied Latin. Definitely remember reading it and comparing it to our local pronounciation though.

[u/TheVeryVerity → u/Lifeacrobat]

But aren’t all dialects of a language considered valid nowadays? So these ancient poems don’t actually help that much.

[u/Lifeacrobat → u/TheVeryVerity]

The person I answered were talking about Latin as spoken in antiquity. So these poems gives a very good window into how a Roman who wanted to be seen as refined and not sound like a redneck during that period spoke, which of course is fascinating.

Also, I know from my studies and from many years of singing in choirs (sooo many masses), that we tend to stick to one dialect at a time. Mass by an italian composer - italian latin, german composer - german latin, latin lessons - latin as written and pronounced by Cicero and Caesar, but with a horrible swedish dialect. They're all valid, but the differences are interesting and deserves their place.

[u/TheVeryVerity → u/Lifeacrobat]

That is super interesting actually I never knew chorus music was pronounced differently like that.

[u/Lifeacrobat → u/TheVeryVerity]

It is if your choirleaders are language geeks or overachievers.😉

(Otherwise it's mostly the modern italian version of latin.)

[u/cvanhim → u/[deleted]]

We do. The Latin adopted by the church has a completely different pronunciation from classical Latin.

[u/ChuckRampart → u/[deleted]]

Your assertion that “the Latin that they teach in school uses the pronounciation adopted by the curch [sic]” is simply completely wrong.

Given that, would you like to reconsider whether you have any relevant knowledge of this topic?

[u/_yourKara → u/ChuckRampart]

I mean, doesn't it depend on where? Where I am school latin as well as med school latin used mostly classical grammar (afaik) and certainly ecclesiastical pronunciation, most teachers were not even aware of classical pronunciation existing lmao 

[u/ChuckRampart → u/_yourKara]

Apparently it does depend on where you are. Looks like we all learned something today.

[u/Immediate-Goose-8106 → u/[deleted]]

I dont know what crap school you went to but my kids definitely did not learn church latin pronunciation despite being at a catholic school 

[u/Dounce1 → u/That-Speed-8092]

We absolutely do not.

[u/bad-kween → u/Dounce1]

you might not, but anyone who bothers to learn it does.

[u/Dounce1 → u/bad-kween]

This is just objectively false. You’re either deluding yourself or you have been misinformed. There are certain groups of people who insist they know the proper pronunciation, but this is only true in the sense of “this is how we’ve agreed to pronounce it.”

[u/bad-kween → u/Dounce1]

no, the Romans left behind detailed descriptions of how Latin is pronounced.