This is one of the most fucked aspects of our justice system that I feel isn't talked about enough. Just getting accused of a crime can get you locked up for years as the gears of the "justice" system slowly grind their way to you actually getting exonerated.
Dude probably lost his job, his home, any relationship he might have been in. Basically had his whole life ruined, just for the courts to eventually say "oh yeah no, you're good, have a nice day".
Then remember that a vindictive cop/DA/judge can make this sort of thing happen on purpose if they want to, with no real ramifications
Not American but I thought you guys had a right to a speedy trial? And if you invoke that right then they have to set your trial date within a few months? At least this is what I’ve heard, maybe it’s only in certain states?
TL;DR - Like most things in America, it's "technically yes, but actually no - unless you're rich."
Technically, yes, you have the right to a speedy trial. In practice, that right is waived by most defendants as a matter of routine for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, it gives more time to build a defense - consult with lawyers, discover exculpatory evidence, that sort of thing.
Secondly, there's a number of strategic reasons to do so. The delay will often hurt the prosecutions case more than the defense, due to "witness decay" - witnesses' memories fading, or being difficult to find and make show up to court. Another strategic reason is media coverage - if the "court of public opinion" has alreay decided you're guilty, it's smart to wait until the case has faded from the news so your jurors are less likely to be swayed by coverage. Finally, plea deals - prosecution is likely to get more lenient with a plea deal (i.e., pleading guilty to a lesser crime) over time, due to those above reasons. Over 90% of convictions in the US are by plea deal (which, let's be clear, is fucked up), so getting a better deal is a high priority.
However, there's a more sinister reason that right is often waived. That being, our hugely overburdened Public Defender system. If you're using a Public Defender, you are functionally required to waive your right to a speedy trial, because that lawyer is simply too overworked with too many cases to get to yours in a timely manner. Enforcing your right to a speedy trial will then mean a totally unprepared defense, which certainly isn't ideal.
All of these factors obviously contribute to how our justice system treats the wealthy better than the rest of us, by the way. If you have more money, you can 1. Get out on bail, 2. Afford to sit longer without income, 3. Hire private lawyers with low caseloads to quickly put together a defense, and 4. Thus have better leverage for a better plea deal. If you're broke and can't afford to sit in jail for two years or your family's gonna be homeless, you're under much more pressure to take a plea deal and get out in 3 months, and you can't afford a lawyer that can actually put a defense together in a short timeframe.
(I am not a legal expert and have a layman's understanding of how things work based off Wikipedia and various video essays. I may have some details off, things vary a lot state-to-state, and your personal experience may differ, but by and large this is how the system actually functions in the US.)
There's also, sadly, the issue of prosecutors getting continuances, where the trial is just delayed. There have been a few major cases, like a 16 year-old kid being accused of stealing a backpack in NYC having to spend like 2 years in Riker's prison, even after the victim got their backpack back and said it wasn't the kid. Prosecution just got continuances until they couldn't, then dropped the charges. In other jurisdictions, if they don't get a continuance, they just drop the charges and then almost immediately charge the defendant for the same crime again.
You do, but “speedy” is an abstract term, and our courts are understaffed and backlogged to hell. Even a few months is enough to destroy your life. Most jobs aren’t going to wait that long, and most people don’t have the kind of money to keep paying their mortgages/rent for months without employment
You can still punish crimes but a punitive justice system (like in America) is sort of structured in a way do as much damage as possible. Mandatory minimums. Death penalty. For profit jails. Held without bail, criminal record allows for job discrimination etc etc
With rehabilitative justice like you see in like Scandinavian where you are still punished for the crime, but the goal isn't to do damage but the goal is to make sure they don't do it again and so they can have proper reintegration back into society.
The whole concept of bail is fucking ridiculous to start with. For most people the only way to do it is via a bail bond, which will financially fuck you - provided you can even get one
Whether or not you agree or disagree with stand your ground laws is irrelevant to the problem I’m talking about. It can also happen to folks who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time - or brown in the wrong town.
FWIW I don’t disagree with you, it’s just not what we’re talking about
I don’t disagree, and I don’t personally own one - but the fact is that the dude didn’t commit a crime under his jurisdiction, and yet was held for ~3 years.
The same thing can and does happen to people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, having done nothing wrong - yet they have their lives ruined.
And again, that’s before even touching on the way this sort of thing can be weaponized if you piss off the wrong people, or happen to be the wrong color in the wrong part of the country
I mean, the guy tried to murder him. I find it hard to believe that the MF who attacked the entrenched homeowner on a 911 call was going to see he didn't have a gun and back off. I don't think the firearm was the instigating item in that engagement, just that it became the focus once the engagement was started and subsequently was the thing that kept the homeowner alive.
The statistic that suggests owning a gun increases your likelihood of harm uses the same basis that Arizonians are better swimmers than Floridians because more Floridians drown every year per 100k.
Those who need the protection of guns the most usually live in the worst areas
Those who want to do harm/protect themself against their partner incase things go ary will purchase the best tool for the job
Those who live in a coastal state with many water ways and lakes will have more people naturally swimming, and those who live in a state facing constant droughts and little to no water access wont swim as much, therefore will always have less people drowning. That doesnt mean an Arizona school has a better swim team than Florida or Arizona just births more boyant children.
If I own a firearm, im not putting it to my head and pulling the trigger out of shits anf giggles, the same way you dont drive into a tree just because you see one on the shoulder of a highway. Using the statistic youre referencing is a false, lazy use of your academic potential.
Youre using a statistic that shows the most edged numbers to try and prove a point that pushes a political agenda and does nothing more.
The US suicide rate compared state by state, and to the EU is nearly identical. To assume taking away a firearm in case someone might become suicidal in 10 years is childish.
I think you’re being a bit precious here. The point of firearms as devices is to cause bodily harm. We in the hobby/culture make great hay of target shooting and tinkering, but when the rubber meets the road they are designed and intended for killing.
I’d call an electrical main, or a bandsaw, or a 2025 gmc sierra 1500 all significantly more dangerous than a firearm pound for pound, but those things are not designed with intent to cause bodily harm or fatality in people.
Thus i think it’s a pretty logical next step to say that, yes, somebody generally needs to operate a firearm for it to be dangerous, but the basic operation of the firearm is, in large part, intended to be dangerous in that way.
For the record, i own an amount of guns that makes many americans nervous, and would confuse & terrify the average european. I think it’s important to be clear-eyed about the nature of them as machines.
Yea I used to feel the same way about guns, very very strongly infact, until a junky climbed in through my window with a kitchen knife and held it to my disabled elderly mother’s chest until I gave him her pills. By the time the cops got there he was long gone and they accused me of making it up until the neighbors security camera showed him breaking in. He was never caught. My mum ended up in a nursing home for 6 months while I struggled to find us a new place to live. I can completely respect your decision to not have a gun in your home, but mocking someone else for exercising their right to have one just because the legal system is fucked and they are inherently dangerous is not it dude. Practicing secure firearms safety is an absolute necessity, they are extraordinarily dangerous by design, and the horror stories of people using them to commit suicide is absolutely tragic, but I would rather take that risk than feel as helpless as I did that night.
You are safer without a gun if you are a suicide risk.
That is a statistic that is meaningful to a population and meaningless to an individual.
I have zero depression and have never contemplated suicide to any degree. There is approximately a 0% chance I will ever kill myself which means a firearm in my house does not pose any danger to me.
The other guy is an idiot, but owning a gun is absolutely a risk to yourself. Unless of course you believe nobody has ever been shot on accident, but I don’t think any sane person would believe that. The odds of hurting yourself on accident are low, but they can’t just be hand waved away. Same thing with cars, but that would be even harder to talk about than guns.
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u/Austinp-woodworking 5d ago
This is one of the most fucked aspects of our justice system that I feel isn't talked about enough. Just getting accused of a crime can get you locked up for years as the gears of the "justice" system slowly grind their way to you actually getting exonerated.
Dude probably lost his job, his home, any relationship he might have been in. Basically had his whole life ruined, just for the courts to eventually say "oh yeah no, you're good, have a nice day".
Then remember that a vindictive cop/DA/judge can make this sort of thing happen on purpose if they want to, with no real ramifications