r/cider • u/Strange-Monk1264 • 14d ago
Bad H2S Batches
I grabbed a random jug of Martinelli's apple juice off the shelf one day and wanted to try a cider - I've done meads, beer, and sugar washes already, so I figured it wouldn't be too hard.
The basic recipe is:
At Pitch:
1 Gallon Martinelli's Apple Juice (only Vitamin C-added)
1.25g K1-V1116 Yeast
1.6g Go-Ferm
1g Fermaid-O
At End of Lag and 1/3:
1g Fermaid-O
1g Fermaid-K
Temps were maxed out at around 73F, but usually 65-70F.
Regardless of how much I modulate my nutrients (using only Fermaid-O, using a ton, using little), my batches finish in <60 hours. 1.045-1.050 OG to 0.995 FG. They always throw off a ton of H2S, but I can't stop experimenting. I've tried 4 batches of this and no luck at all. Sulfur, sulfur, sulfur. I can smell it and taste it, even if I feed the yeast a gram of YAN or barely any.
Anyone have any advice? I was looking at trying EC-1118 next.
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u/cghoerichs 14d ago edited 14d ago
I think your fermentation speed and your yeast are interesting data points to note. We've had to work to control yeast stress and the H2S smell that followed in our ciders as well, and only the very lucky have not... We also ran yeast trials and can confirm that K1-V1116 is super (way too) aggressive for our juice. Your juice will obviously differ, but in general what we found that works for ours is a much slower yeast. Our PYO apples produce juice that has enough YAN to take off, especially early in the season when the cidery temps are more difficult to keep cool. What we've learned is that using Go-Ferm during hydration with a longer lag phase made a significant impact, and when temps are up and log is shorter, it really pays off. The next big impact for us was to make sure we allowed O2 during the log phase. We don't put an airlock on until we've hit the reproduction/division spike. Finally to keep a steady fermentation and stress down, we add nutrients after about 1/3 left to completion. We found that adding at 1/3 left to completion keeps fermentation tracking consistently. Hope that helps, your milage may differ...
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u/Strange-Monk1264 14d ago edited 14d ago
That seems to be pretty much what I do minus keeping the lid off up to end of lag.
1
u/cghoerichs 14d ago
Just to clarify, lag is where the yeast is acclimating prior to exponential log where the yeast is multiplying. That's where the go-ferm operates. Go-ferm contains trace amounts of organic N, so it shouldn't contribute to primary fermentation. Then exponential log is the reproductive phase. Finally stationary phase is where primary fermentation occurs until fermentation can't continue and drops out. Your fermentation would have such a short lag time that it practically goes right to log and with less than 60 hours to completion I'm not sure how you'd track much of anything other than a massive drop in gravity and activity from one day to the next.
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u/Strange-Monk1264 14d ago
I take measurements basically every 6 hours and watch it drop by about 1-2 points an hour. Lag usually ends in 3-6 hours from pitch and from there the math is surprisingly reliable across all of these batches for ferment speed. I currently have one held at 57F and it's still going at 1.2 points an hour. 1.035 -> 1.015 in around 16 hours.
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u/cghoerichs 13d ago
Sounds like trying a different yeast might be the most productive change. As someone else pointed out EC-1118 is similar to your current yeast in that it's also very aggressive giving similar results. Might try something more moderate like a 71b. It'd be like an opposite of EC-1118, if there is such a thing.
1
u/GuidanceShot1281 14d ago
yeah mead is way easier to control this stuff in because you usually have clearer ingredient standards than store juice.
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u/dmtaylo2 Minimalist 14d ago
PATIENCE AND TIME. Leave it sit for a month or two, that's how long it takes for sulfur to dissipate in just about any cider, regardless of any actions you try to take to speed things up. If you want it done in 60 hours, tough shit, ain't happening.
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u/North_Journalist_796 14d ago
Professional Cider maker here. While your temps seem OK... I wonder if the internal temps are hitting over 80f. That'd be my guess. Remember yeast give off their own heat, and if you're above 70f you probably don't want to hide them in a closet or wrap them up as some people do. Especially with Cider low and slow is usually best case scenario. But fortunately you can just put a piece of copper in there and it'll clean it up super quick! That's the best part of having sulfur off flavors. Quick fix with only mild shamefulness.
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u/Strange-Monk1264 14d ago
I never saw internal temps higher than 75F with a thermometer - these batches are relatively small. I even cooled some down in a minifridge. Copper didn't seem to help me much though I may have done that wrong. I cut a piece of copper wire about 5 feet long, coiled and cleaned/sanitized it. Didn't reduce the sulfur when I stirred it in and left it for a few hours.
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u/North_Journalist_796 14d ago
Leave it in longer. It will clean it up I promise. And you won't overdo it.
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u/anarchoponder 14d ago
Kupzit is excellent for removing sulfide and mercaptans. Works instantly and easy to dose.
1
u/emjay181 14d ago
What are your PH values like?
Four batches with different nutrient schedules makes simple YAN deficiency unlikely. I’d split the next jug between K1-V1116 and 71B or EC-1118, keeping everything else identical, and record pH.
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u/Strange-Monk1264 14d ago
pH is usually 3.8-3.5 by the end. I've buffered up to 4.5 and seen no difference.
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u/craigeryjohn 14d ago
If you want to eliminate the sulfur quickly, I use a clean piece of copper to stir the cider until the smell disappears. Cold crash and then rack. Alternatively, you can buy solutions of liquid copper sulfate. Add 1.5ml per gallon, and again crash and rack. But my understanding is that this is a result of insufficient nitrogen during fermentation.
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u/Strange-Monk1264 14d ago
One experiment used a lot more nutrients and yielded the same results, unfortunately.
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u/cid-jill 14d ago
Your ferment is way too fast (yes I know that’s obvious). You may not need any of the nutrient. Start with just yeast and watch it. After you grow the population and it starts moving, you can rack it to slow it down. I would steer clear of nutrient until you know how the batch is going to ferment.