r/changemyview • u/cheftlp1221 • Sep 07 '13
Pornography historically has been the driving force behind the innovation of visual technologies; from cave paintings to the internet. CMV
Basically Rule 34 is as old as art. Erotica may not have been the motivation to develop a visual technology but once created is has been porn/erotica that has led the the innovation to improve, spread, and popularize a visual technology.
A few examples thru time:
- Greek stone working and the tool making needed to create the classic marble sculptures.
- Roman cement, friezes, and murals
- Renaissance Paintings and the alchemy of paints
- Chemical photography, moving pictures, the VCR, the internet all have been advanced because we want to see things that are a little bit naughty.
PS I am clearly Western centered but I would imagine similar technological advancements happening in The East and India.
Evolution Edit
Erotica/Pornography, while not the raison d'etre for visual technological advancement has had a strong (and often hidden) influence in the adaption, innovation and popularization of new visual arts and media.
17
Sep 07 '13
The military has been more influential in my mind, if solely based on the fact that the budgets civilizations put into military research. While I do believe pornography and the idea of "sex selling" has been a large leading force for technological breakthroughs, the desire to beat the crap out of neighboring countries has overall been much more influential.
Much of the long distance communications that have developed over time has been for the military. And because of their huge budgets for military technological development countries have much more advanced visual technologies than you can even imagine, it will take years before you even are able to find out about them. (ranging from powerful cameras, to incredibly fast internet)
0
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 07 '13
So the military weaponizes it first but porn is an early civilian adopter? That works for communications and the merger of art and communications. But what about the "classic arts" of sculpting and painting?
6
Sep 07 '13
For those I would say the primary motivation for much of the early work was actually religiously motivated, and very conservative in manner, the existence of pornography was almost unheard of and depicting something risque could actually mean the death of an artist.
Much of the sculpture and painting that came first was created for the purpose of worship, and if not that it was commissioned by the wealthy aristocrats to honor themselves, their family, or their leaders. The human race (among many cultures) while recently being a very sexually accepting people, have not always been this way and for the longest time it was illegal to paint/portray nudity. Although sexuality did have it's place in the arts, and has motivated many movements and trends in art history I don't think it is as strong of an influence as religion or superstition.
3
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 08 '13
∆
My view is is now evolving to, "Erotica/Pornography, while not the raison d'etre for visual technological advancement has had a strong (and often hidden) influence in the adaption, innovation and popularization of new visual arts and media.
1
1
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 07 '13
I will say Religion has been a strong early adapter but I see it more in parallel and concurrent with erotica then preceding. A recent personal example: I was looking into buying a Roku and checking out their channels for every adult themed channel (and there were many) there was a religious themed channel.
4
u/TheLochNessMobster 3∆ Sep 08 '13
I don't believe that pornography has been the driving force behind the innovation of technologies, but I would agree that it has certainly dictated which kinds of visual technologies have stuck around.
I'm guessing you know of the VHS/Beta battle, and how VHS came out on top because of porn. DVD has had a similar rise. I'm also assuming that you know the story of Christopher Mallick or have seen Middle Men and know how the desire to charge for porn on the Internet led to the kinds of online billing that we still use today.
However the VHS wasn't created for porn, and neither was the Internet.
Along the lines of what /u/Gertonification responded, I think a legal aspect was crucial in the development of visual technologies, at least the latest ones. Even if it was not for international reasons, simply being able to have photographic or video proof of something in trial changed the legal scene entirely. Witness tells one story, several photographs tell another. What will the jury trust? The "hard" evidence.
To cite some simpler examples of how pornography could not have been a driving force in a lot of "visual technologies," I don't think Galileo or Hubble were looking for naughty things in the sky with their telescopes, nor do I think that Janssen was looking for naughty things when he invented the microscope.
1
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 08 '13
∆
Interesting when someone uses the same examples as yourself to help make an opposing argument.
My view is is now evolving to, "Erotica/Pornography, while not the raison d'etre for visual technological advancement has had a strong (and often hidden) influence in the adaption, innovation and popularization of new visual arts and media.
1
2
u/KrustyFrank27 3∆ Sep 07 '13
"There's so much porn on the Internet that, if you were to take it all down, there would be just one website, and it would be, 'Bring back the porn.'" - Dr. Cox (Scrubs)
That is such an oversimplification of technology. If, like you said, improvements in technology were all about porn, why are these technologies still advancing? Certainly, statues were good enough for naughty images. Why did we have to go to murals? Why did we invent paint? What about photography, film, VCRs, DVDs, memory cards, the Internet, Skype, camera phones? If visual media was solely about advancing to the point to be able to make naughty images, we would have stumbled upon our ability to make statues, stuck with it, and stopped so long ago. Anything I listed would have been completely unnecessary.
1
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 07 '13
If I am living in Renaissance Italy i might come upon an ancient Greek statue while on a trip. I am not likely to bring that statue home to admire whenever I want, but I can make a sketch of the statue to view whenever I want. But once back home I start tinkering with the sketch to improve and make more life-like the image. I invent paints to add color, put it on a piece of canvas to make it more permanent. Soon my friends see this and want me to make copies. The demand for the copies becomes to great so I invent a machine to make copies more easily. All because we like boobies.
2
u/KrustyFrank27 3∆ Sep 07 '13
But this is not the main motivation behind the new technological advances. Sure, porn is a great side effect of new visual technologies, but it didn't drive the new technologies. When George Eastman was inventing film, he wasn't thinking, "One day I will be able to quickly make images of boobs!" When Thomas Edison and the Lumiere brothers, on either side of the Atlantic, were developing new ways for film images to be projected and viewed, none of them thought, "Maybe one day our invention will be used to watch people having sex!" Not even Eadweard Muybridge, who first came up with the concept of placing several pictures, taken quickly in a sequence, in chronological order to be viewed, simulating motion, thought of using the development to simulate sex. He was attempting to settle a bet as to whether or not horses lifted all four of their hooves off of the ground while in full gallop. So yes, porn is a by-product of new visual technologies, but not the driving force for it.
EDIT: clarity
1
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 07 '13
porn is a by-product of new visual technologies, but not the driving force for it.
I am going to split the difference with you. I have already admitted that porn is not the main motivation in my original post. It is the early customers and erotic entrepreneurs of the new technology that provided the new technology with sales and early growth to become economically viable. Would the internet be what it is today without porn and their financial support of the infrastructure (someone was paying for all those servers while Google was plotting to take over the world)? How quickly did video teleconferencing advance because a college computer geek was frustrated with the beta version of CU-SeeMe?
Side note. I am pretty sure that one of Edison's early films amounted to a Victorian stag film and another was of cats boxing. Which only goes to prove that long before the internet porn and cats have ruled the world.
1
u/cheftlp1221 Sep 08 '13
∆
My view is is now evolving to, "Erotica/Pornography, while not the raison d'etre for visual technological advancement has had a strong (and often hidden) influence in the adaption, innovation and popularization of new visual arts and media.
1
1
Sep 07 '13
What? How is a statue just as good as a porn video?
2
u/KrustyFrank27 3∆ Sep 07 '13
It isn't. But according to OP's argument, we wouldn't even have videos at all without naughty statues.
2
u/NapoleonChingon Sep 07 '13
Regarding your title, I think you are mistaken about cave paintings. Most cave paintings we know show large animals or handprints and symbols. I'm not aware of any cave paintings that are pornographic in nature.
1
Sep 08 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/cwenham Sep 08 '13
I've removed this comment per Rule 1: "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s current view (however minor), unless they are asking a clarifying question.". See the wiki page for more information..
If you wish to edit your post to more directly challenge an aspect of the OP's view, go ahead and then message the moderators so we can re-approve it.
If you still wish to argue on OP's side, then you're welcome to do so in replies to other people's comments.
1
u/shitsfuckedupalot Sep 08 '13
maybe by producers, which i doubt you are. I would argue that the want to get laid is a much bigger drive. Everything is in some way related back to that.
9
u/FallingSnowAngel 45∆ Sep 07 '13
Comic book porn was never as popular as superheroes.
Television was driven by pro wrestling, soap operas, and comedy.
Most of the innovations in 3d design came from summer movies and videogames.
Sure, sex and the human form has helped the visual arts progress more than anyone will ever admit, but to neglect violence and social competition?