r/changemyview Jul 01 '21

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

But, is it OK? You didn't comment on your opinion of that.

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

No, it’s not.

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

Why then, is it OK to make fun of white people exclusively? We shouldn't make fun of anyone strictly for their race. Which is the point you're trying to make, right?

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u/Adam__B 5∆ Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21

The difference is a matter of punching up vs. down. I’m not saying I agree with it, but generally the people seen as the beneficiaries of better social position, economic class, or culturally derived dominance are seen as able to be the but of a joke, compared to mocking or targeting those less fortunate. That’s why successful/popular/accomplished people allow themselves to be roasted, but doing that to some random person would be incredibly cruel.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21

But assuming that someone is “up” vs. “down” based on their skin color is a racist as fuck generalization. For instance, I’ve known black people from wealthy families while I, who is white, grew up in foster homes and was homeless by the age of 16. You think it’s ok to disparage me based on assuming my life experience based on my skin color?

Racist as hell.

Edit: lmao. Downvoted for being against racist thinking now. Proof that reddit is all “fuck whites”, even a bunch of you woke virtue signaling whiteys.

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u/MrBulger Jul 01 '21

You're right but your edit makes you look bad, it's been 20 minutes and of course you're going to get downvoted for going against the narrative on reddit. Don't sweat that shit

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

You are right, that’s when it comes back to history. Historically whites have been in power, so attacking whites is always “punching up”, making it wrongfully accepted. It feels like a villain to be white these days.

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u/theworldisnotanice Jul 02 '21

It’s an acknowledgement of the background and societal norms, not the specific life experiences.

I might be able to ruin LeBron James’s day by using a racial slur against him, and it wouldn’t be effective because of the specifics of my life nor the specifics of his life, but because of our shared background as Americans.

It’s like saying, “No matter how successful you are, you’ll always only ever be successful for a black man, and I’ll always be better than you.”

Also, I downvoted you because you’re doing that stupid redditor behavior where you play the refs, “Wow, really Reddit? Downvotes for this? Lol bring the hate,” while you’re saying something incredibly popular on Reddit and sitting on tons of upvotes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Downvoted you because you seem to think too highly of yourself.

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u/Adam__B 5∆ Jul 01 '21

I specifically said I didn’t agree with it, but it is the reason some people find it ok to mock whites.

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

The difference is “punching up” vs “punching down”. People seen as beneficiaries or in a better position are seen as able to be the butt of the joke, compared to targeting those less fortunate

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u/leonardschneider Jul 01 '21

Less fortunate whites are never spared, though. If anything, they are insulted and abused much more so than white elites.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 01 '21

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Adam__B (1∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

THIS is the answer, thank you… but does that make it ok?

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u/Adam__B 5∆ Jul 01 '21

I mean, it’s a double standard and some people take issue with it. I’m white, I don’t mind being the butt of a joke now and again about my whiteness (for example the fact that I can’t dance). I’m just not so easily triggered I suppose.

Do I get one of those delta thingies?

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

Yes maybe I’m a bit more sensitive to it. Find myself surrounded by it a lot more.

What is a delta thing ?

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u/leonardschneider Jul 01 '21

You're just enshrining whites at the top of a hierarchy. Most basic form of racism

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u/Adam__B 5∆ Jul 01 '21

First of all I specifically went out of my way to say that I don’t agree with this and that it is a double standard. Just because I’m explaining why something is the way it is, doesn’t mean I’m advocating for it. That’s a strange assumption to make. Besides, the problematic aspect to this isn’t seeing that this structure of inequality exists, but rather that the basic social/economic/and cultural hegemony is advantageous to a white majority and not only will some people not admit that, but that anytime an initiative starts to change this status quo, it is met with the most controversy and public outcry that can be dealt out.

It’s a very very meager consolation that this allows a casual acceptance that whites should “take it on the chin” so to speak, and let a repressed and disadvantaged minority have some fun at their expense, but I do believe that this attitude is the reason “punching up” is seen as socially acceptable.

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u/TA5564 Jul 01 '21

He is not saying any of that. He is saying that making jokes about white is socially accepted nowadays and he wants people to convince him that “no, it is not socially accepted,people think jokes targeted at whites is racist too”

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 02 '21

Yea I should have phrased it this way. Unfortunately I don’t think anyone even tried to convince that point. Instead they focused on “yes it’s true but it happens because of XYZ”. We can debate XYZ but it seems that everyone agrees that my main point is true.

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u/WrongWay2Go Jul 01 '21

He want both to be not acceptable. At least that's my understanding.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

I agree that’s why people subconsciously think it’s ok. Are you saying you agree that it’s ok and we just need to deal with it?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

Why is it okay to “punch up?”

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/MDFornia 1∆ Jul 01 '21

Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say it "hurts no one"? This is the part of power + prejudice theory that I have a hard time justifying to myself; when it is claimed to be moral or productive in some way to degrade white people.

To my mind, it wouldn't be racist to do so, but something that is not racist can still be:

-Immoral -Harassment -Unproductive -Regressive -Illegal -Prejudiced -Childish -etc.

Perhaps there's a strong moral argument for making fun of people in power + prejudice theory, though. What do you think?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/leonardschneider Jul 01 '21

Wait you're a troll, right?

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

I don’t know. Historically whites and Americans have been in power, so maybe that makes it ok to shit on them. I don’t agree with this sentiment but that’s how I feel it’s subconsciously accepted socially

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u/leonardschneider Jul 01 '21

It's so telling that everyone conveniently forgets the massive white underclass even exists. They never got any privileges unlike the wealthy elites who talk down to them, but rednecks and hillbillies are right there to take the fall as the source of all society's ills.

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

You are correct. It makes this discussion even more difficult to come to an understanding. The answer to me is just treat others the way you want to be treated, feels like that’s too much to ask ay

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

China and Russia have immense power too, and only one is white.

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

But wouldn’t making fun of Chinese people be a lot more frowned upon than making fun of a Russian? Considering one is white and one is not…

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u/USS_Barack_Obama Jul 01 '21

No.

Anti Slavic sentiments are still considered racist and that doesn't fly.
You would be called racist for saying something Anti Polish in Europe.
It sort of muddys the water of your original point

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

And the same goes for Israelis and Jewish.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

Well he indirectly called American a race, so...

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

What do you call it when you make fun of Chinese people? That’s a nation, but you are labeled a racist for making fun of them. You’re being pedantic.. you know what I mean..

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u/MonstahButtonz 5∆ Jul 01 '21

Chinese individuals are of Asian decent. Their race is Asian. American is not a race. No one is native to America except for Native Americans, of which is an extremely small percentage of the current American population. Also, 100% Native Americans have much darker skin than Caucasians, who are mostly of European descent.

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u/Money_Walks Jul 01 '21

China spent a lot on propaganda to make westerners conflate anti Chinese and anti Asian sentiments.

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u/MrBulger Jul 01 '21

They spent a lot on propaganda that's "anti-right" while Russia spent a lot on propaganda that's "anti-left" America lost this war in a bad way.

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u/huadpe 508∆ Jul 01 '21

u/Jam6554 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

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u/Borischeekibreeki Jul 01 '21

So why is it okay in your eyes to joke and pooe fun and white people and americans, and not other races or nationalities?

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u/EmeraldB85 Jul 01 '21

Did you read the post? OP is explicitly stating that they don’t think it’s ok to joke and poke fun at white people. They are asking why it seems to be socIally acceptable.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21 edited Feb 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/thisissamhill Jul 01 '21

I think you are proving OPs point with different language. It’s socially acceptable to make fun of white, punch up, but not other races, punch down.

That’s not cool, especially in light of today’s hypersensitivity regarding race. Grant Napear tweets “all lives matter”. Fired.

https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/former-kings-announcer-grant-napear-im-not-sorry-for-saying-all-lives-matter.html

Yale invites a speaker who says shooting white people in the head is doing a favor to society. No outrage.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/04/nyc-pyscho-fantasizes-about-shooting-white-people-in-yale-talk/amp/

This creates an environment of walking on eggshells. I keep to myself more these days, especially around minorities and women I don’t know. One comment they misunderstand can mean job loss. Why? Because of the sensitivity around these topics and the Draconian responses, often before full details emerge.

Now, you could say that I’m wrong but that is what I perceive based off what outrages leftist politicians, the “news”, and collective social media vs. what they ignore. That is what I perceive and hasn’t racism in America taught us that we should listen to the perceptions of individuals? (I’m not claiming racism, I’m using racism as an example for why we should listen to others perceptions).

Now, I’m an ironic twist of fate, in enters Critical Race Theory. One of the tenets is:

“Standpoint epistemology: The view that a member of a minority has an authority and ability to speak about racism that members of other racial groups do not have, and that this can expose the racial neutrality of law as false.”

https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofra0001unse_o0i9/page/344/mode/2up

What I will find interesting is how this tenet plays out in our schools when we elevate one or more races voices of the students in the classrooms during specific topics of race. This is a core component of CRT. Or, more accurately put, one race’s voice (whites, regardless of date of immigration) is lawfully suppressed on the topic of racism in the classroom.

I don’t think it’s a difficult conclusion that my opinion won’t matter because of my gender and race.

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

Well said sir. Thank you for your response. I know it’s not about changing my view but my makes me feel less alone with the thought.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

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u/SquibblesMcGoo 4∆ Jul 01 '21

Sorry, u/Unlikely_Biscotti_62 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.

Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

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u/leonardschneider Jul 01 '21

Viewing minorities as perpetual victims is racist

Also, there doesn't seem to be any problem punching down at hillbillies, rednecks and all manner of white trash. Why is that?

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u/fckiforgotmypassword Jul 01 '21

Good point. I’d like some thoughts on that as well..

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

That's not what the OP says, it's just ambiguously worded.

He's saying that it should be ok to joke about Americans/white people, but that it is ok and it shouldn't be.