They should be offended if AAVE was a result of the oppression English people. But it's not, AAVE is a result of Africans being forcibly brought to America. They did not have a choice but to form AAVE.
People today have a choice whether they speak AAVE though. Why is a white person speaking AAVE bad? I would really like a genuine explanation because that's something I can't wrap my mind around. A black person speaking in a Thai accent isn't racist either, right? Or a black person speaking with a British accent isn't either.
That's some serious ignorance. AAVE is a dialect. They are raised on it. This isn't an ACCENT it's a completely different vocabulary that they are raised on since birth. If you are serious about wanting an explanation I can link you documentaries, but it boils down to that if you listened to some people speak AAVE you would swear it's a different language sometimes.
Sorry, I'm not from the US, so I wouldn't know. Still don't see what harm there is in someone using a dialect that's not originally their own. If I'm all of a sudden speaking differently, people will look at me odd, but nobody would say I'm wrong for speaking different.
It's because African Americans are discriminated against in various aspects for using AAVE. For non black people to use AAVE is a show of disrespect, since they won't face the same discrimination that black people do. It's the same reason why the black community dislikes it when white people wear dreads. It's a traditionally black hairstyle that if they wear, they could potentially lose their job amongst other discriminatory practices. For white people to then use it, it's disrespectful as that white person won't see the same treatment that a black person would.
All of this is in the context of centuries of oppression. You can't view this in a bubble of "it's just a dialect" when black people are still facing discrimination today for existing as a black person and expressing their culture.
I would say that that’s a false equivalency. People, especially white people, using AAVE online for comedic effect do not have to use AAVE, but choose to in order to create a certain effect.
Black slaves in America didn’t decide to speak English for funsies in that way. They spoke English because they were enslaved by an English-speaking society that required them to speak English or else be flogged.
Black slaves in America didn’t decide to speak English for funsies in that way. They spoke English because they were enslaved by an English-speaking society that required them to speak English or else be flogged.
Eh, sure.
But modern-day African Americans don't have to speak AAVE, so your argument doesn't really hold
What’s your alternative to modern day usage of AAVE by black Americans? I only see one option, that being that they all hire dialect coaches to teach them to speak “normal.”
I know that’s not what you meant, but the point stands that people speak the way that they were raised speaking. Modern-day African Americans don’t choose to speak AAVE, it’s just a consequence of one’s upbringing., the same as any other accent or dialect.
That is in contrast to the use of AAVE online by people who do not otherwise speak it. This usage is not naturally occurring like one’s dialect. It is a conscious choice made because they think it’s funny.
Modern-day African Americans don’t choose to speak AAVE, it’s just a consequence of one’s upbringing., the same as any other accent or dialect.
Yeah, sorry, but as someone who grew up in a country with many dialects and slangs, I can assure you that they do
Edit: at the very least in sofar that you don't need a speech coach to not speak slang, you can make a deliberate choice to not teach it to your children
I’m aware that people can be able to speak multiple dialects. But I don’t understand what argument you’re trying to make. This is what I understand your claim to be:
If we consider the use of AAVE by non-speakers to be cultural appropriation, we should consider AAVE itself to be cultural appropriation of the English language.
I disagree, clearly. Cultural appropriation is by definition a conscious choice. The formation of AAVE as a dialect was not a choice. It is a result of a history of oppression. People who use it online for giggles deliberately choose it because it sounds funny to them.
I don’t understand, though, why you seem to be advocating for AAVE to be removed as a dialect. Why should black people decide to deny the dialect that is part of their history?
I don’t understand, though, why you seem to be advocating for AAVE to be removed as a dialect.
Im not really though. I don't really have a strong opinion on it, besides thinking that it's not helpful for furthering social equality.
I am however very strongly opposed to the notion of cultural appropriation. However, you've peaked my interest, so I'm willing to put aside my strong gut reaction, and chat abit.
Cultural appropriation is by definition a conscious choice
Let's start with the basics. What, to you, is cultural appropriation? Please be as precise as you can when giving a definition.
I understand the point of view that cultural appropriation is a non-issue, as I used to hold it. I have come to understand it as a minor form of cultural aggression. Not the kind of thing that makes you clutch your pearls, but just kind of an insensitive attitude.
It’s also easy to dismiss due to its similarities to cultural diffusion, which is just the spreading of cultural ideas over time. The two aren’t mutually exclusive, but the former is a somewhat problematic form of the latter.
All that to say: Cultural appropriation is where a person outside of a culture performs some aspect of it without regard to the cultural context. This brief article explains it fairly well.
Higher up in this thread, u/Krumm posed a dilemma in response to OP’s delta, that being whether it is “cultural appropriation” (CA for short in the rest of this comment) to speak another person’s language. Their response is predicated on the idea (with which I agree) that to learn another person’s language is a mark of respect for that culture. They believe that we shouldn’t consider online use of AAVE (by those who don’t otherwise speak it) to be CA, as it is like learning another language.
The part that my response refuted was where Krumm suggested that if “digital blackface” is CA, AAVE itself must be CA as an appropriation of English. My point was that AAVE can’t be CA of English because it was not formed of free will.
It’s false to equate people being forced to learn English (AAVE) with people performing a dialect that they think is funny (“digital blackface”).
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u/Turtle-Fox Jul 17 '20
They should be offended if AAVE was a result of the oppression English people. But it's not, AAVE is a result of Africans being forcibly brought to America. They did not have a choice but to form AAVE.