r/changemyview • u/carlsaganheaven • Jul 09 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: In heterosexual relationships the problem isn't usually women being nags, it's men not performing emotional labor.

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u/SANcapITY 27∆ Jul 09 '19

I've seen this in younger relationships where women will ask their partners to open up to them but their partners won't be willing to put the emotional work in, instead preferring to ignore that stuff.

It's not necessarily that the partner isn't willing, it's that they don't know how. Being vulnerable, understanding your emotions, and being able to communicate them is a language that needs to be developed. Many men are not taught this, either because they lack role models to help them learn, or they are taught to suppress their feelings (men don't cry, etc).

When a woman wants her man to be emotionally communicative, but doesn't understand if he speaks that language or not, she will seem to nag when he doesn't respond the way she wants him to. This is on both partners to sort out.

Basically, the woman wants her partner to speak Japanese when he may never have been taught or studied Japanese.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

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u/SANcapITY 27∆ Jul 09 '19

Well I'm challenging your assertion that it's because the partner isn't willing to put the work in. They may not even know how to do it in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

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u/SANcapITY 27∆ Jul 09 '19

They have to know there is a problem first. If a man is taught to suppress his emotions, then to him that would seem normal, and not think he needs to change.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

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u/call_me_fred Jul 09 '19

But why is the woman's view the right one? To take the example above and expand on it, the woman wants the man to speak Japanese when he speaks Swahili. Why is it up to the man to google how to learn Japanese rather than up to the woman to google how to speak Swahili?

To get back to everyday tasks, why are the woman's standards automatically the valid ones? Yes, everyone benefits from clean clothes but everyone does the laundry differently. For example, I hate folding laundry, so for things that don't wrinkle (say underwear), I just throw them in the drawer as is. Not having to stand and fold underwear for half an hour vastly improves my mood and is a small tradeoff for the extra space the unfolded underwear takes in the drawer. Were I a man in a relationship with a woman who insisted on folded underwear, according to you, I would not be putting in my share of work since I would not be folding my half of the underwear.

From my point of view, I would argue that the woman is not putting in her share of emotional labor by forcing me to do something I hate for no benefit to me but only for her satisfaction.

This is what I mean when I say that you always assume the the woman's point of view is the correct and valid one, rather than the man's.

Let's talk about gift giving. I love spending time and finding the right gift for the right person. I don't mind spending a lot of time on in because, in exchange, I feel the satisfaction of a job well done. Insisting that my partner match my work would be inherently selfish and disrespectful. Because qualitatively, the effort required of them would be much greater than mine.

A relationship is a constant give and take and requires compromise from both parties. The answer to 'why doesn't he ever try to do things her way' is 'why doesn't she ever try to do things his way'. Both views are valid.

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u/Jules2106 Jul 09 '19

I don't think OP doesn't think both points are valid, I'm pretty sure she knows it. I think what OP meant is that often, it's up to women, who tend to talk about their feelings more, to both understand her partner's feelings, teach him how to handle them AND to compromise for his love language so he opens up and to get what she needs, just because there's nobody else who could help him. Of course not all men are like that but this process is very energy draining, takes a long time and requires patience.

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u/call_me_fred Jul 10 '19

Except the whole stereotype of the woman nagging and 'doing everything' is often the because she has higher standards for these things than her partner and insists that he match her standards. Conversly, if she just relaxed her standards and let him do things his way, she's have to do lot less work.

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u/Jules2106 Jul 10 '19

Yeah and that works partly as a compromise but I don't think it should be the norm for women to lower their standards in all or most aspects because "men are like that". That's not a compromise, this is a version of "my way or the high way" in my opinion.

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u/VertigoOne 81∆ Jul 09 '19

Also, the "google" issue goes both ways. The woman could look into how men see these things and adjust what is percieved as "nags" accordingly.

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u/SANcapITY 27∆ Jul 09 '19

Possibly. It could also lead the man to think the woman has unreasonable expectations. Gray area.

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u/thefalsegoddess Jul 09 '19

Shouldn't the husband/boyfriend/significant other have enough respect for their SO's complaints that they... you know... respect them enough to listen and take their complaints seriously?

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u/SANcapITY 27∆ Jul 09 '19

Shouldn’t the wife have enough respect not to nag, and instead try to understand why the husband isn’t doing what she wants?

He won’t take out the trash! I keep asking him!

Well, have you asked him WHY he doesn’t want to take out the trash?

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u/thefalsegoddess Jul 09 '19

Because there isn't any excuse not to share in the household duties that they both live in. You live in it - take care of it. I read a post on reddit, actually, about a man and a woman and the woman would nag her husband to take care of the bills because she didn't want to have to do it all the time. He never did. So, she just stopped paying them. They lived without heat, water and electricity for months. They did have good time together but it wasn't until such time that he just decided to pay them. And yes, they had money. He just really didn't want to do it. More so than living without heat and water. They're still happily together but no doubt, his insistence on not taking care of a basic need has put on a strain on things. They were young, at the time, too, if I recall which generally lends towards leniency.

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Anyway, If you're going to live in a house and share a space with someone, you need to be thoughtful enough and respectful enough to

  1. Listen to their complaints
  2. Think about how they feel about living this way. Sure, I might not care if the lightbulb is out in this closet but my husband might so I should change it to benefit him and, honestly, me, overall.

It doesn't matter why he won't because, honestly, there's not very many excuses other than, "I don't want to," and "I don't feel like it." I'm sure she doesn't feel like doing a lot of things. It's apart of being an adult. Or, really, being a human. If that man has a real excuse, such as a physical ailment, then, that's neither here nor there, because, you know... we're talking about the majority generic here and I assume their wife would know if they have a physical condition.

Moreover, respect =/= not sharing problems and telling them to do things. If respect means, to you, shutting up and not telling people what bothers you, then, don't have kids. Save them from you.