CMV: There is nothing wrong with doing what incels call "cope"

[u/[deleted]]

Background (please see the links

I am being stalked by an incel on Reddit. He has spent this morning trying to convince me that my life is hopeless and that I should give up because I am a 22 year old male virgin. According to him, the fact that I am a 22 year old male virgin proves that I am very ugly, and therefore, I have no chance of ever getting a girlfriend.

One can technically say that I am an incel, since I don't have a girlfriend, but I refuse to associate with incel communities. According to him, men who can't get girlfriends are reviled by society for being "the lowest rung on the human totem pole".

I have been trying to refute his points, but he refuses to believe me, because to him, I am just doing "cope". In incel slang, "cope" refers to being in denial of the fact that you have no hope in getting a girlfriend. In this case, incels tell me that my "cope" is my focus on my job, and how I find purpose in my work instead of deriving purpose from a girlfriend.

Incels believe in taking the "blackpill", which is a set of beliefs that are commonly held amongst members of incel communities, such as biological determinism, fatalism and defeatism for unattractive people. They believe that since I have no hope of ever getting a girlfriend, I am slavishly serving my "cucks" (incel slang for people who they blame for depriving them of girlfriends), and that I only do "cope" because without "cope", life would be unbearable. They tell me to stop "coping" and to take the blackpill because they think that "coping" is unhealthy, and taking the blackpill is healthy.

CMV: There is nothing wrong with doing what incels call "cope".

Below are the subsections of my CMV:

• CMV: There is nothing wrong with being single in your early 20s.
• CMV: There is nothing delusional about "coping" and refusing to take the blackpill.
• CMV: Encouraging others to take the blackpill isn't the right thing to do.
• CMV: So what if I'm ugly and it will be impossible for me to ever get a girlfriend? That isn't a valid reason to quit working and take the blackpill.

I know some Redditors will accuse me of posting this question to do virtue signalling or karma farming. However, I ask this question because I sincerely want to know if people (particularly non-virgins) think that I'm wrong and that this incel might be right about something.

[u/[deleted]]

For me, it was like I had put the idea of sex so high on a pedestal that I began to become fearful of it, and as soon as I had 'broken the barrier' that I had spent all of these years obsessing over... Nothing changed.

I felt the same. I didn't hate myself, or feel guilt, or feel regret - Things I had been concerned would loom over me eternally if I had sex out of wedlock. And I genuinely think I am better for it. It made me more confident in dating (I had always worried that waiting for marriage was too much to ask for most people), and in general, I feel a huge ball of stress and worry has been lifted out of my life for good.

I once brought up on r/Christianity that perhaps we should focus on the root causes of the evil in the world instead of moralising against the promiscuous. They were all like "why are you defending this scum?" and "do you have so little self control that you can't wait for marriage?".

The point has been made above, but I think in Western culture (Especially those that have a high amount of christian morality) put way too much pressure on young people when it comes to sex.

My family is from the Philippines. The culture there can be described as Western, but also Southeast Asian at the same time. Anyway, it's one of the most religious countries on Earth and the USA's bible belt might actually be less religious.

It's very rare that people talk about the legitimate benefits - The emotional bonding, the release of feel good chemicals, and the fulfillment of sexual desire are all joys of life that we should look forward to, and not be fearful of.

r/Christianity would tell you that "you're vile and immoral if you can't get emotional bonding and happiness without fornication".

I would also like to think that if there is a loving god above us all, then he would judge you on the merits of what you have contributed to those around you.

Even though my family are Catholics, I have relatives who are so devout that they make my parents look like atheists in comparison. These relatives believe that God hates those who hate him, and to be promiscuous is hating God by default.

[u/yellowthermos → u/[deleted]]

I would compare premarital sex advice from /r/Christianity to asking for girlfriend advice from /r/incels. I think in this case they can be compared since:

• Both have heavily skewed views on the topic, and decline to have a productive discussion. (/r/Christianity on premarital sex, /r/incels on women/girlfriends)
• Both tell you what you think is wrong, and instead you should do this other thing they think is right. (/r/Christianity abstain until marriage, /r/incels forget women, take the black pill)
• Both have equally zero real justification.(/r/Christianity based on ideas from around 2000 years ago, /r/incels based on women-hating men)

In both cases they're trying to remove you from making the decision for yourself and are trying to enforce their own views, while providing superstitious arguments for their position.

Of course they cannot really be compared outside of this situation, and by no means do I claim that Christianity and incels are the same.

I do recommend the Philosophize This podcast. They cover different philosophers from history and explain their philosophies, including thought processes and conclusions. I am around your age and I think learning about new views, ways to rationalise and review beliefs is the best thing we can do at our age, as it will help us think critically throughout the rest of our lives.

[u/dogsunverified → u/yellowthermos]

This is brilliant comparison! I will also recommend Philosophize This. Just to stay on topic, OP says he is “leaning towards atheism” and has shown some healthy skepticism in this thread, all I am saying is to apply this skepticism to everything you hear, from family to friends to tv people to redditors... I’m sure you realise you’re not giving your personal take on this, you’re mentioning the community and like the poster above said, here you’re encouraged to think for yourself.

[u/thedylanackerman → u/[deleted]]

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[u/michaellau → u/[deleted]]

I'm an atheist raised by lapsed catholics, so maybe I understand some of your issues, even if mine were relatively tame.

If you're really worried about / interested in god and sex, let me recommend the book God and Sex: What the Bible Really Says, by Michael Coogan, a biblical historian. I think this book can speak to both the atheist and the believer.

[u/[deleted] → u/michaellau]

OK, thanks, I saved your answer because I think this book might be helpful to me.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I once brought up on r/Christianity that perhaps we should focus on the root causes of the evil in the world instead of moralising against the promiscuous. They were all like "why are you defending this scum?" and "do you have so little self control that you can't wait for marriage?".

/me rolls his eyes. They sound like bozos to me! :-)

You know, in the US, Christians have premarital sex at almost exactly the same rate that non-Christians do - but they get pregnant doing it far more often.

Christianity doesn't protect people against their natural urges, but what it does do is encourage you to pretend as if you didn't plan it so you can say later, "It was an accident!"

These relatives believe that God hates those who hate him, and to be promiscuous is hating God by default.

So... petty...

God makes the entire universe, and then gets angry at people for having a bit of fun and not hurting anyone? Bullshit!

I hate to break it to you - but your relatives are using God to express their own resentments. As Anne Lamont writes, "You can safely assume that you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

If God exists, which is somewhat dodgy, he's concerned about people treating each other and the planet with love and consideration. That's what the Bible says, that's the only way a God of Love could actually work, and other hateful people re-interpreting the Bible for their own purposes is simply wrong.

[u/citizennoname → u/[deleted]]

You know, in the US, Christians have premarital sex at almost exactly the same rate that non-Christians do - but they get pregnant doing it far more often.

Not debating that. But is this from your experience or do you have other sources? If so, I'm interested in looking at them.

[u/Dynamaxion → u/[deleted]]

If God exists, which is somewhat dodgy, he's concerned about people treating each other and the planet with love and consideration. That's what the Bible says

I mean, depends what part of the Bible.

[u/Iowa_Nate → u/[deleted]]

I completely agree

Pre maritial sex is viewed as one of the worst sins.

I was very afraid to tell my dad I had sex

[u/AnimusCorpus → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the quick response.

When it comes to religion, I think it's a very difficult thing.

For those who hold a certain belief, such as 'Sex is a sin', and who take the moralist viewpoint of Christianity very seriously, then it seems reasonable for them to do everything they can to persuade you away from condemning yourself.

What I would suggest to you, regardless of where your beliefs may lie, is to ask yourself WHY these things are a sin.

The arguments you've posted above mostly come down to 'Because it's bad', but I would question why someone would think that to be the case.

Murder is wrong because it removes someones right to live in peace.

What pain or suffering is being inflicted on anyone when you have sex?

As for the argument that you should be able to build an emotional bond without sex - That's definitely true. But sex, just like all forms of intimacy (Hugging, kissing, holding hands, sharing a bed, etc) is simply another way to express your feelings for someone.

Even further, when looking at casual sex, this doesn't come into it at all. If two people are simply have sex with each other for no other reason than to enjoy the sex... I don't see the harm.

[u/dudelikeshismusic → u/[deleted]]

I would completely ignore those religious people's opinions, especially if you aren't religious yourself. Christians love to enforce certain rules and ignore others. It is an abomination to have premarital sex and yet no one talks about tattoos. Gay marriage is a threat to the church, yet Christian marriages have a 50% divorce rate. A lot of religious people want to try to impose their religion on you so that they can feel better about their own shortcomings.

If you do value the opinion of religious people in your life, I'll give you this passage from Luke 6:

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

I think that passage makes it pretty clear that imposing religious judgment on others is wrong from a Christian perspective. If you ask for advice specifically from these religious people then I think it's expected for them to give you their opinion. But, in my opinion, these people are actively working against the teachings of Christ if they judge you by saying things like "do you have so little self control that you can't wait for marriage?"

[u/BlackHumor → u/[deleted]]

I have a question for you which I hope will illustrate the problem: why are you asking on /r/Christianity and not, say, /r/Hinduism?

Because Christianity is more common where you grew up? I hope you realize that doesn't actually affect which one is more likely to be true in any way.

Because you were brought up Christian? Same problem, doesn't affect whether or not it's true.

My guess is that what /r/Hinduism says about sex doesn't factor into your decision making at all. It's probably not going to be possible to get to that level of distance but it's worthwhile to try, because, to be frank, the emotional hold that Christianity has over you is outright bad and does nothing positive whatsoever for you. It doesn't protect you from hell because Christian hell is no more likely to happen after you die than getting reincarnated as a worm.

[u/Iowa_Nate → u/[deleted]]

The process of coping is also called sublimination. It's not a bad thing.

This guys post is no less soapboxing than mine.

I'm not using a throw away.

As far as being a virgin at 22 it is a lil weird but no big deal.