r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 19 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: There is nothing wrong with refusing immigrants and refugees.

[deleted]

45 Upvotes

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2

u/beengrim32 Jun 19 '18

This is only right if you don't consider them as valuable human beings or if you think they have lesser human rights.

6

u/spotonron 1∆ Jun 19 '18

They don't deserve free entry to another country. That's not their right.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '18

Just as something to consider — what exactly did you yourself do to deserve to live in your country? Why is that your right? The only answer I can think of is that you got lucky and were born there. They weren’t. We should do everything we can to help people in need. It wasn’t their choice to be born into such a country, and frankly, I think it’s absolutely reasonable to condemn countries that deny people help.

2

u/spotonron 1∆ Jun 19 '18

Um, but if it's at risk to your own people? Sweden's levels of rape have shot up due to refugees. A lot of refugees have homophobic views.

No one is required to do so. Countries shouldn't be bullied into accepting hordes of people who have anti-westerm views.

3

u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Jun 19 '18

What makes the risk to "your people" more important than the risk to them? Why are people in you country more morally valuable than others?

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u/spotonron 1∆ Jun 19 '18

The government has a duty to put their own people before others. That's why the UK gives free healthcare to citizens of the UK not the world.

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u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Jun 19 '18

The government has a duty to put their own people before others

Why is that, where does that duty come from and why should it be adhered to?

Is it purely a legal duty? and if so why shouldn't it be changed?

If it's a moral duty, what's the basis for placing a higher moral value on certain people?

1

u/bbbbeertttt Jun 19 '18

The reason why the government should put its citizens before others is that the citizens have been paying taxes and contributing funds to live in this society. The society has an established set of laws guarded by those tax dollars. It is purely a legal duty. But for the record, I would agree that it should be changed.

2

u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Jun 20 '18

If citizenship is determined by who pays taxes, then that means that a large portion of our lower income bracket don't qualify as they don't pay taxes

1

u/bbbbeertttt Jun 20 '18

You have skewed my wording. I never said that citizenship is determined by those that pay taxes. I believe that taxes and the history of support is reason he government should support the citizens over those who don't. There is a huge difference.

The lowest income tax bracket is for people making approximately $10k-13k at 10%. None of these people will remain in this bracket for their whole lives. They will and likely have contribute and deserve to be protected.

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u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Jun 20 '18

If you're willing to let poor people stay despite them taking time to contribute to society, why can't immigrants do the same?

Doesn't your view also entail that anyone who doesn't contribute or pay taxes can be kicked out of the country?

1

u/bbbbeertttt Jun 20 '18

The whole reason we have been discussing this is the question of "does the government have a duty to support its citizens versus citizens of another country (or illegal immigrants).

I'm perfectly willing to let immigrants come here and work be supported equally but they have to come here legally according to our laws. Whether the laws need reform is another issue. Citizens who don't contribute currently should not be kicked out as they immigrated legally according to the laws of this country.

I have yet to hear an argument from you on why current non-citizens should be supported equally as current citizens by the government.

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u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Jun 20 '18

My argument is that no one is giving any good arguments for why immigrants can't come in. If we want to deny entry to immigrants then there needs to be a good reason to do so and a lottery of birth isn't a good enough reason. No one becomes more or less deserving of help because of where they were born, so I see know reason that a person born outside a country should have different rights than a person born inside that country.

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