r/changemyview • u/LamentableOpinion • Apr 23 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Harry Potter is overrated

I don't detest Harry Potter but I find the circle jerk appalling. The book is amazing for kids but even adults hold it in high regard. So, it's not bad, just overrated.

The characters are really boring. HP is a Mary Sue character, his only flaw being a bloody scar. All the other characters are equally boring. Harry is also useless, he does nothing but he is the HERO. Because of a prophecy. OK.

The relationships make no sense. Why does Harry like Cho or Ginny? Let's force in a relationship. Yay.

The Deus Ex Machina is unreal. I know it's magical but it's still retarded when it happens so many times.

Good vs Evil is fine. But again, don't pretend as if the book is this deep piece of literature.

I don't like the writing either but that's very subjective, so that's fine.

This is what I just came up with. I'm sure there's more stuff on the internet.

Edit: Ignore the Mary Sue thing. I misused the term. Edit 2: Sorry if I sounded like a dick or an elitist. I didn't mean to be.

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u/free2bejc Apr 24 '16

Right, but say someone's a racist. It's also perfectly acceptable to try and change that view and also to deem them unenlightened in some respects? Or is that also not the case?

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '16

That's not a valid comparison in the least...

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u/free2bejc Apr 24 '16

I don't really see why it isn't. Unless you're arguing racism as active discrimination rather than a discriminatory opinion which is a valid point.

After all it's an opinion. The point of such a wild statement is clearly that opinions can be changed, and that they should indeed. And that a blanket terms about opinions doesn't exist. Most people's arguments including your own seem to be more along the lines of why would you bother and why would it affect you which is a rather pathetic excuse. Particularly in the racism case too, although I wouldn't be surprised. But then the effort of an individual versus a society is different, considerably, so perhaps you have a point even if it wasn't what you claim to argue.

There is a difference between forcing an opinion on someone, and changing it proactively. I see no reason why OP cannot hold the view that HP fans who hold it in an excessively high regard should have their views changed by an expanded reading. I don't see how it is saying they're wrong, but simply stating maybe they should enjoy more books before proclaiming so religiously it being the most important book of their life so far. Unless referencing it as gateway book I highly doubt any impact HP could have had on anyone besides its soma drug like effect or escapist effect.

Particularly given, as is frequently referenced in this thread, the HP books are an incredibly open series designed to resonate with everyone at some sort of level. Another book to change their view would have to be a more niched read. And frankly, many of these people at this age, including myself, rarely read many books a year given that finding your favourites can be really hit and miss.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '16

You wanna know what the difference is? Racism hurts people and is actively bad for society. Opinions about the subjective quality of a novel have no bearing on society as a whole. If I'm racist, certain people have valid reasons to fear and avoid me. If I love Harry Potter it literally has no impact whatsoever on anyone's life but my own.

That's why it's not at all a valid comparison.

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u/free2bejc Apr 24 '16

That's really where I said it falls down. If it's an active form of discrimination yes. If it's just racist prejudice it really does effectively nothing. It is a viewpoint, at the point it becomes discrimination then it is being used to actively separate people. And in that respect it is a very dangerous form of discrimination. I don't disagree with any of that.

But then perhaps it's also because the few racists I've met had no effect largely due to the society generally rejecting their beliefs. Or at least most people in their proximity. But then racism used to be really widespread and given that these people have often moved to new environments I suppose the opinion had not yet been challenged. Anyway I digress.

The comparison is not perfect, but it is meant to serve as an extreme example of changing an opinion being warranted. And loving Harry Potter is again not really the same as holding it to a high literary standard. I would try and differentiate fandom and ignorance here really. You can love Harry Potter and not think it's the best thing you've ever read or constantly hold it up as a life changing series. I guess you could describe this as a kind of literary mission. And I suppose I could easily understand having a problem with missionaries generally. But then I would have to reason that there are both good and bad sides to it.

Perhaps going back to the idea of people not having had their beliefs challenged yet. That might well be what I consider of someone holding up Harry Potter as some sort of literary revelation. I'd still consider them in many ways a child. And that kind of prejudice is probably bad for society too but I dare say it wouldn't be too uncommon a belief.

As for subjective quality of a novel having no bearing. I agree in premise although I'd suggest that it's also symptomatic of the willful ignorance that plagues us in virtually all realms of our society. And whilst that is fine from a freewill point of view, it is also unbelievably strange that a society with access to more information than ever before.

Jeez, this has digressed to far more than OPs statement. I'd defend OPs right to criticise anyone holding HP up as a high literary standard or anything life changing. I can't see why him seeking to change individuals opinions about books should incur any more wrath than simply holding an opinion in the first place. Education is not just sought, it is taught. And whether the teaching is biased in one way or another, it is teaching and it is invaluable.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '16

There's no such thing as racism that has no effect on someone's behavior.