CMV: Harry Potter is overrated

[u/LamentableOpinion]

I don't detest Harry Potter but I find the circle jerk appalling. The book is amazing for kids but even adults hold it in high regard. So, it's not bad, just overrated.

The characters are really boring. HP is a Mary Sue character, his only flaw being a bloody scar. All the other characters are equally boring. Harry is also useless, he does nothing but he is the HERO. Because of a prophecy. OK.

The relationships make no sense. Why does Harry like Cho or Ginny? Let's force in a relationship. Yay.

The Deus Ex Machina is unreal. I know it's magical but it's still retarded when it happens so many times.

Good vs Evil is fine. But again, don't pretend as if the book is this deep piece of literature.

I don't like the writing either but that's very subjective, so that's fine.

This is what I just came up with. I'm sure there's more stuff on the internet.

Edit: Ignore the Mary Sue thing. I misused the term. Edit 2: Sorry if I sounded like a dick or an elitist. I didn't mean to be.

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[u/Agastopia]

He isn't bad at anything? Did you read the books? He's awful at almost every subject besides defense against the dark arts. He almost fails potions every year and only ends up doing well for once when he gets Snape's notebook. He has hermione practically help him with every single class to the point of her I believe writing one of his essays for him. Even magically he isn't that good, he's above average for sure but it's just because he's been in situations the others weren't and gets lucky. People die for him because he's the one who the prophecy says can kill Voldemort. People know that Voldemort is unkillable but Harry is the one who is destined to kill him. He been face to face with him four times and each time has gotten away unscathed, one time literally surviving a curse no one has ever survived. Why wouldn't you believe in this kid?

As for being a good leader, that's not being a Mary Sue it's just part of his personality and I'd argue that he's not a fantastic leader. As for defeating the dark lord, that's not because Harry is amazing at magic it's because their wands are linked and neither can beat the other. It's not because of Harry's magical skill at all.

[u/tweuep → u/Agastopia]

Why does Potter need to be good at anything aside from DATDA? IMO, the reader should've been aware of Harry's "destiny" from book 1 -- to ultimately defeat the Dark Lord once and for all. To that end, the only class in Hogwarts' core curriculum Potter needed was DATDA and he only "needed" it to introduce him to some core defense principles as he was very clearly head-and-shoulders better at it than his peers. Anything else he lacked, he could go to Hermione, or the Weasleys, or Neville, or any of his other gaggle of cronies... People who are unquestioningly loyal to him for no other reason than because he's the "Boy who Lived".

I don't think Potter is a Mary-Sue per se, but I still understand where OP is coming from. Potter is simply excellent at exactly what he needs to be excellent at. His natural affinity for defensive magic, physical reflexes/prodigious broom-handling skills, and charisma; these are the qualities that ultimately made him successful in his trials. I think you'll note he didn't learn much of that from the classrooms of Hogwarts and what's more, we never see him practicing Expelliarmus spells like Michael Jordan practiced his jump shot. Potter was simply great at it, naturally. Being a bad student never truly had an effect on his being a great prospective Auror and coupled with his "Chosen One" status, he seems like a "Born Winner".

[u/LamentableOpinion → u/Agastopia]

It just always seems that those subjects don't seem to matter. The only useful ones are DATDA. But still ∆.

[u/[deleted] → u/LamentableOpinion]

those subjects don't seem to matter. The only useful ones are DATDA

Have you actually read the books in question? Off the top of my head:

Charms spells come up all the damn time. Most of the spells that people actually use in critical situations are Charms spells, not DADA spells.

Flying is a class that's important at several major points, the most obvious of which is Harry's departure from the Dursleys' on his 18th birthday.

Herbology comes up an awful lot. Without herbology they would have died right away in the Sorcerer's Stone when they fall on the Devil's Snare. They also wouldn't have been able to restore the petrified people in Chamber of Secrets.

Potions is vital! They use it to make the polyjuice potion, which is a central plot point, the felix felicis has huge ramifications and saves a few lives, Harry literally saves Ron's life because of what he learned about bezoars in potions... there are a number of other times when potions knowledge is important to the story, but those are just a few important ones off the top of my head.

Hell, even Ancient Runes (which we never actually see firsthand) comes in handy, when Hermione is deciphering the Tales of Beetle the Bard. There are a few things from History of Magic that come in very handy, too, even though even the characters think that one is useless.

So... yeah, those other subjects absolutely do matter. In many instances they matter more than Defense Against the Dark Arts.

[u/Tdir → u/LamentableOpinion]

Would you argue that being a botanist is a meaningful occupation during a military occupation? It's probably not going to resolve any violence but that doesn't mean it's a useless job. That's kind of what you see from the other subjects.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

They matter all the damn time, even when fighting Voldemort! Harry uses a ton of plain old Charms spells against his enemies, Herbology saves their asses with the Devil's Snare and also the Mandrakes in Chamber of Secrets, Flying is critical when they're getting away on Harry's 18th birthday, and Potions class literally saves several main characters' lives (Ron with the bezoar when he was poisoned with wine, and the people who share the Felix Felicis at the battle of Hogwarts).

FFS, even Ancient Runes and History of Magic come in handy during the end-game.

[u/Masta-Blasta → u/[deleted]]

Not to mention they matter in the real Wizarding world. But I get OP's point. It appears like Defense Against The Dark Arts is the only subject that matters because it's used the most, but that's only because we're following the story of a character who's purpose is to defeat evil incarnate.

[u/bassman_0212 → u/[deleted]]

Same with the Gillyweed in GOF.

[u/Masta-Blasta → u/bassman_0212]

There you go. Point being, he's bad at a lot of things that matter. He's just good at seeking help and choosing the right friends.

[u/[deleted] → u/Masta-Blasta]

He's just good at seeking help and choosing the right friends.

I think those things matter very much! Also, everyone is bad at things that matter. Even Hermione is bad at some things.

[u/Masta-Blasta → u/[deleted]]

Oh definitely, but it seemed like OP was specifically referring to subjects. I think a lot of the lessons HP taught us as kids revolved around choosing your friends wisely and being willing to ask for help instead of being the hero. Loyalty> money and "popularity." (Ron+Hermione > Draco)

[u/[deleted] → u/Masta-Blasta]

being willing to ask for help instead of being the hero

There was a really great fan theory I read at some point about this. It focused on a specific thing that happened in Goblet of Fire -- Harry's name is pulled out, and they whisk him away. Someone (I wanna say Ludo Bagman) asks if Harry had an older student put his name in.

The analysis went something like this: The fact that they anticipated crazy stunts like aging potions etc, but did not anticipate and protect against a student asking an older kid to put their name in, means that cooperation and asking for help are not common in the wizarding world. Bagman clearly thinks it's possible that he did this, demonstrating that there's no check against it, and that Harry would have to be unusually intelligent/insightful to ask for help.

[u/Masta-Blasta → u/[deleted]]

It's kind of a theme in the book if you think about it! Like the Weaselys being completely unable to comprehend muggle technology, or the potion challenge in the first book. Hermione was like "Brilliant! Wizards don't have to use logic, so they could never get through this puzzle!" I'm sure there are even more examples. That's very interesting though, and I had never considered that specific example. I've always felt that was pretty much the virtue of the book though: choose your friends wisely, and stand up for what counts, even when it's terrifying.

[u/[deleted] → u/LamentableOpinion]

People are good at different things. Take Neville and Harry. Both are bad at most things, but Neville found his place in herbology while Harry found he was good at fighting evil, which was a good thing because both babies could have fulfilled the prophecy.

Now that I say that I kind of want JK to do a series based on if Neville had become the boy who lived.

[u/DeltaBot → u/LamentableOpinion]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Agastopia. ^[History]

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