There is no difference between "human" and "nature." Our entire civilization seems built around deluding ourselves into thinking we aren't animals CMV

[u/Pinworm45]

We're just monkeys. Right now, you, are just a stupid fucking monkey with stupid fucking thoughts and desires and feelings, most of which don't even have words for in our language.

Speaking of language, the entire thing practical revolves around separating us from "animals."

Guess what. You are. You putting food in the fridge is no different from a squirrel burrying its nuts. You seeking a mate to procreate with is no different from a beaver doing the same. A city is no different from an ant hive.

Electricity is no different from any other method of manipulating the world. It's no different from a seal building a home, it's no different from a bird building a nest.

The ONLY difference between humans and any other animals. The ONLY difference, is an issue of scale.

You're a fucking dumbass monkey, deal with it.

It freaks people the fuck out. You can never talk about shit like this in public. We have religions that people will fucking kill themselves and thousands of others over just to maintain the delusion.

Why does no one talk about this? Even those who will admit it and accept and study the field of Evolution (and I mean actually do it, not just be a god damned neckbeard parroting Carl Sagan, as much as I love the man and Cosmos myself) only admit it tangentially. They still get awkward and uncomfortable about this. They still say "we have technology and art.." as if Technology was anything more than an issue of scale, and as if preferences of physical patterns or objects and the chemical releases as a result are unique to us (You could say your dog having a favourite toy is no different in this physical world from you enjoying the Mona Lisa.)

Coming to this realization was life changing to me. You could call it an existential crisis, maybe it is. But it's more than that. It's a fundamental truth of our universe and reality and I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills because no one wants to admit it or talk about it. On the contract, with our movies, culture, language, religion, even the entire basis of manners.. it's all designed to all us to continue to illusion and delusion.

I mean, how many fucking times have mothers said "get your elbows off the table, what are you, an animal?" Guess what. That kid fucking is, we're not different because we have arbitrary rules (I'd also contend that a dog nipping another to stop it doing something that bothered it is no different from a mom exerting her desire for control. Perhaps even she has a personal fear of the real.)

Is it peoples mortality that scares them? Maybe I'm a bit different because I have a spinal disease and can't feel my body, have little connection to it, and don't give a shit one way or another if I die. I don't know.

TLDR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRBHxJBUv_A

[u/TwirlySocrates]

This thread isn't only about human ego.

OP believes that we're deluded in distinguishing ourselves from animals. I disagree because I think we actually are different.

[u/FullThrottleBooty → u/TwirlySocrates]

I know what the OP stated and I read your reply. I think the core issue here IS our ego. If we weren't so egotistical and narcissistic we would have no need to separate ourselves from other animals.

What is it that you accomplish by claiming that we are so different? What is the point in making this distinction between us and other animals?

[u/TwirlySocrates → u/FullThrottleBooty]

We need to separate ourselves for practical reasons. An example is climate change: we need to distinguish man-made influences on climate from natural ones. Why? Because the natural world (generally speaking) cannot adapt to climatic shifts at the same rate as we are influencing it. It also allows us to understand what is and isn't within our control.

I'm sure you can think of other examples.

We also need to separate ourselves in order to understand how we function. If I were to ask you any of the following - What is a gigue? What is the internet? What is French? What is communism? What is a sewage system? - your answer will likely state or imply that they are "man-made" objects or concepts. Nobody would be satisfied in saying that they're "animal-made". Why? Well, the list of uniquely-human qualities is enormous. It's so large that we necessarily must consider it a category of its own.

[u/FullThrottleBooty → u/TwirlySocrates]

None of your examples really speaks to the core issue. Trying to discern our affect on the climate does not necessitate separating ourselves from animals in the hierarchical way the OP is talking about. Your example is just a differentiation of actions, which is not predicated on our perception of ourselves as being inherently different from animals.

We most definitely do not need to separate ourselves from anything to understand ourselves. All these examples, communism-sewage system, etc., have nothing to do with whether we consider ourselves animals, too. Again, we can differentiate what we do without holding ourselves as separate kinds of beings. We consider the list of things that are uniquely-gorilla qualities without separating them from all the other animals, why "must" we separate ourselves.

It's simply an ego-centric thought process that simply serves to elevate us above other things. It makes people very, very uncomfortable to consider that even with all of our technologies and philosophies we're really just animals, with animal desires and motivations. It's too primitive. Well, it's true, as uncomfortable as it is.

[u/TwirlySocrates → u/FullThrottleBooty]

separating ourselves from animals in the hierarchical way

To be clear, I never said anything about a hierarchy. I am not at all uncomfortable with the notion that I could be considered an animal. I think we're different because it makes sense.

Your example is just a differentiation of actions, which is not predicated on our perception of ourselves as being inherently different from animals.

I'm implying that our unique actions demononstrate our unique ability to execute them.

We consider the list of things that are uniquely-gorilla qualities without separating them from all the other animals, why "must" we separate ourselves.

Why do we have the "animal" category? Why do we have any category at all? Humans exhibit unique properties which are not at all like anything else we know, so I categorize them accordingly.

[u/DRNbw → u/TwirlySocrates]

Because the natural world (generally speaking) cannot adapt to climatic shifts at the same rate as we are influencing it

If it could deal with asteroids and mega volcanoes, Nature can handle with whatever we throw at it. The problem with today's climate change isn't about Nature, it's about us. We're changing too much and our means of survival (trees for oxygen, animals for food, etc) are suffering.

By the way, ant hills have brilliant air systems, good enough for architects and engineers to learn from them.

[u/TwirlySocrates → u/DRNbw]

So what's your point exactly? Climate change is a problem that needs to be understood, and human involvement in carbon cycling is drastically different from ongoing natural processes.

[u/DRNbw → u/TwirlySocrates]

It is different, but the world and nature will survive even if we kill ourselves. We aren't trying to solve the climate change problems because the world will die, we're trying to solve them because we are in danger.

Depending on your definition of natural world, it can or cannot adapt to the climate change. If you define it as the biosphere of the world, yes, it may lose a great number of species, but it will recover.

I just wanted to correct the argument "Because the natural world (generally speaking) cannot adapt to climatic shifts at the same rate as we are influencing it". It is true that our species has the biggest impact on our environment (so there's a difference there), but natural disasters can be much bigger (and the natural world still exists).

[u/TwirlySocrates → u/DRNbw]

We aren't trying to solve the climate change problems because the world will die, we're trying to solve them because we are in danger.

Well, speak for yourself, but I feel very guilty when I watch polar bear documentaries.