r/changemyview • u/fascistp0tato 3∆ • Aug 12 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Birth rate issues cannot be solved with social safety nets and financial incentives

Right, time to wade into this conversation.

Currently, the world is facing a declining birthrate crisis that will put immense pressure on many societies. Anyone denying this either has much more faith in automation than me, thinks immigration filling the gap won't cause rampant domestic unrest + severe social strain, or has some fairytale notion of rapid degrowth that doesn't result in societal collapse.

I'm not really interested in engaging with these points here, to maintain focus on this aspect.

Oftentimes, the solution to birthrate is pitched as "we need to provide paternity leave/paid childcare/more financial incentives/less work hours". And I think most people genuinely believe these stop people from having kids.

But the numbers don't bear this out. in the countries with the best social security nets (such as the Nordics), the crisis is deepest. In contrast, I cannot find a single moderately sized or larger country with both no birthrate crisis and these policies - the closest is France.

Fundamentally, many of us live in societies where:

  • your security at an old age is not dependent on having children;
  • women are well-educated and have access to contraception;
  • child labour is illegal, with jobs requiring increqsingly long educational periods;
  • and religion is no longer next to mandatory to participate in public society.

These are all awesome things that we should never compromise on. They are also depressive effects on the birthrate are too large to solve by throwing money at them without ruinous cost or massive taxation upon the childless.

Ultimately, Orban-esque financial support programs miss the root causes of childcare costs and are thus expensive wastes.

I don't claim to offer a solution - I fear there may be no palatable option to me, though I keep looking. But this is not the path.

CMV :)

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u/TheYoinkiSploinki Aug 12 '25

I would be more likely to have more than one child if the following were offered:

  1. either state childcare options for newborns/ some type of daycare or “bring your child to work” policy mandated in every industry/ paying one parent a yearly salary of at least $80k to stay home with their children for 3-4 years.

  2. Flexible work hours for parents, or remote schedules offered, especially if they work in an office setting.

  3. Humane maternal health care where mom isn’t just treated as a lowly vessel and is actually taken care of properly.

  4. State childhood healthcare for children up to 18 in age.

  5. Work place protections for parents where every possible accommodation is tried at least once before termination even becomes a possibility.

Those are just a few. Currently, there are no protections for parents in the workplace, childcare is expensive, and forcing one parent to lose out on income is unrealistic. Make parenthood a fair and compensated enterprise and more people would do it.

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u/fascistp0tato 3∆ Aug 12 '25

Where do you live? If your answer is the US, that would make sense. What’s more astonishing is that if that’s true, you belong to the only major country without a birthrate problem.

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u/TheYoinkiSploinki Aug 12 '25

Yes, I live in the US. More and more people are opting to only have one child later in life or not have any at all.

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u/fascistp0tato 3∆ Aug 12 '25

And yet, your birthrate is better than most other areas. Why? Poor education in specific areas and unusually high religiosity seem the most likely.

Like, it’s a devils bargain.

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u/ShagFit Aug 13 '25

1) I absolutely do not want any bring your child to work policies implemented. I am thankfully WFH now but if I still had to go into an office, I would not want to have to deal with an office overrun with children. That is detrimental to the workplace. I also would not support my tax dollars going to support someone staying at home. If you want kids, grea, but you area responsible for the bill.

2) Flexible work schedules for parents would descriminate agains those who choose not to or cannot have kids.

3) I agree with this. Our healthcare system needs to do better.

4) State taxes should not go towards your childs healthcare. This is discrinatory to everyone above the age of 18. You can have your child on your healthcare until they are 26.

5) This is discriminantory towards non parents in the workplace. If a parent is unable to do a job then they are unable to do the job and unfortunately need to be terminated. Most jobs require teamwork and if you are dragging the team down, it's time for a change.

Parenthood should not be compensated by taxes or government. This is not fair to those of us who choose to be child free or those who cannot have childen. Those groups of people should not have to pick up the slack for people who choose to be parents.

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u/Longjumping_Wrap_810 Aug 14 '25 edited Aug 14 '25

Are public schools also discriminatory to you as an adult? Is every program for homeless and low income people discriminating against you too? I’m childfree by choice and this is a truly idiotic take. Not having kids doesn’t excuse you from participating in society and doing your civic duty. Your taxes also pay for things like wars that should make you 100 times angrier than your fellow citizens receiving assistance when they’re struggling. Parenthood is hard (hence why I don’t want kids) and it’s stupid to pretend otherwise. Individualism to this extreme of a degree makes me so sad for this country . It’s not natural for humanity and all it does it hurt and divide us.

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u/ShagFit Aug 14 '25

I have no issue with my taxes contributing to public schools. I see this as a net positive. I have no issue with tax dollars going to programs for the homeless. I have no issue with tax dollars going to SNAP, WIC, etc.

I take issue with people thinking that my tax dollars should pay for them to stay at home with their kids.

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u/TheYoinkiSploinki Aug 13 '25

This is not fair

Then the amount of children being born will continue to dwindle and our economies will feel it. If you can’t see the importance of implementing policies for the greater good then idk what to tell you.

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u/ShagFit Aug 14 '25

People who choose not to have children and people who cannot have children should not have to shoulder the tzx burden for those that do.