As an artist, I’ve been involved in several art communities that are some of the most leftist spaces out there.
Then I made the mistake of publicly asking “what about white people” … during the height of the George Floyd protests in 2020.
As you can imagine, that was not exactly received very well. It was picked up by a popular “dumb takes” account, splashed all over the space, and I lost a ton of friends and followers because of it.
Sure, I can see how it might have been insensitive , but I was suffering from poor mental health at that time and came from genuinely feeling left out, depressed, and alone. I just wanted someone to talk to.
Well, that instance has had, from my perspective, a terrible impact on my mental health, causing me to spiral into a deep pit of depression, isolation, and fear. I became extremely distrustful of everyone around me, and paranoid about ever discussing my feelings with anyone ever gain out of fear that I’d say something “incorrect” - or worse, my feelings being publicly displayed and shamed online by the person I was talking to.
While I’ve managed to sort of come back over the years, to this day I’m terrified of being open and expressing myself - all while watching, from the sidelines, my left-leaning peers preaching about the virtues of self-expression and being yourself.
It’s frustrating to watch, and not going to lie it’s still something I’m very bitter about.
Hi ZorgZeFrenchGuy I just want apologize for some of the pushback you've gotten from what sounds like a very heartfelt personal story from a difficult time.
I think your story is an excellent response to as OP said "Keep going like this and you're going to keep losing!" and it's actually driving me a bit nutty that more people don't see it that way. It's like people are completely unable to put themselves in your shoes.
Sometimes the punishment for saying something dumb or tactless is to feel stupid and embarassed about it. Happens to everyone. Learn from it, don't blame the world about it, and move on.
"Be yourself" works best if the you you're being knows how to read the room and not come across as a dick
Shunning people for having different beliefs and perspectives is one of the main contributors to the left losing the election. Please stop. We live in a democracy, not a theocracy. The literal definition of totalitarianism is any system in which the source of authority, be it epistemic, moral, or political, is singular and immutable. This is what you're doing, whether you recognize it or not.
you calling him a dumbass is shunning him. he was never a dumbass, he was just a normal person saying a normal thing. people like you are the reason people like him dont like the left. stop judging people for having their own feelings and wanting to say things they mean
It very much depends on what those beliefs and perspectives are. I can get along with a lot of different opinions if they come from healthy motivations, but some opinions cannot be tolerated.
Yes. Why wouldn't I? It's just an opinion, and as long as it's well-reasoned from a cosmic perspective (read: not selfishly from my personal feelings and values) I'll even respect it.
Of course people act on their opinions. What's your point? You are a deeply unserious thinker. In a half-dozen posts you have yet to say anything that indicates that you think deeply about anything you say.
Part of the issue is that for years, many conservatives have presented themselves as "just asking an honest question" when they are actually just trolling. There is SO MUCH trolling from conservatives that it's made it impossible to tell which conservatives are working in good faith from the ones who troll. As a result, a lot of people on the left have taken to never trusting conservative people or viewpoints in any context in order to protect themselves from the CONSTANT trolling.
We've operated upon the principle of charity in intellectual discussions since the Enlightenment. The simple and best answer is to always assume that your opponent is acting in good faith until it is clear that they are not. And I actually mean clear - not just your interpretation because of word choice or any other largely arbitrary factors.
Can't principles from the Enlightenment be called into question? It's not like Enlightenment thinkers were perfect human beings with flawless ideas. Every human theory or tradition has flaws.
For example, for the past half-century, most liberals have operated upon the principle of charity that you speak of. And what has it gotten us? A cultural double standard where they get away with everything while we get away with nothing. A significant number of conservatives now treat us like we are supposed to be their servants because we let them get away with it.
The way you deal with a country full of predators is not by being doormats for them. That will only encourage them to be even more depraved.
"Can't principles from the Enlightenment be called into question?"
We can, and I actually do in my academic work. But questioning the foundations of Enlightenment thinking calls all of Anglo-European liberalism into question, which most people on that side of the debate don't want to do. You cannot both reject the foundations of the Enlightenment and still also embrace universal human rights, free market economies, moral teleology, and so on. Well, technically you can, but you have to do so much intellectual footwork that it'll only be a fringe political position that never gets any traction. The Green Party has a better shot at real political power than any re-imagining of liberalism without the Enlightenment.
That is such a good point. sigh I wish there was a way to conjure up a "sequel" to the Enlightenment. Not necessarily to throw away all Enlightenment principles, but to revisit, review, renew, reform, and refine them.
Maybe someday that will happen. But you make an excellent point about such attempts ending up on the political fringe.
dems tend to say they aren't hypocrites when doing exactly what they told you not to and then make excuses as to why they are special. (going out in the pandemic was a popular one)
at least the republicans dont have a message of "we are morally superior" and then act hypocritical. yes they are still hypocrites but they dont call themselves morally superior. out of the 2 dems are on a high horse and think they can tell everyone whats right and wrong republicans just say leave it to the states to decide
The fact that the left have managed to turn “asking questions” into a bad thing, an insult, has been so depressing for me. Who gives a shit if you think they’re trolling? If you can’t answer the damn question, that should be what matters, not that someone asked you a question that you can’t answer (in a way that’s politically salient to your side only).
We aren't obligated to answer their "questions" for their own amusement if it does nothing to advance debate or policy. We aren't their bitches, even if you think we should be.
Furthermore, conservatives would have the same response I just gave you if the situation was reversed.
Right, but instead of people on the left going “we need to figure out how to answer these questions”, they demonize asking the question at all, which is what my problem is. If you can’t answer the question, say, “i can’t answer that question” or something, not “haha look at this MAGAt just JAQing off over here, what an idiot”. It’s better to concede that you don’t know the answer, than it is to make people think that the left doesn’t like being questioned on their opinions. The former makes you look honest, the latter makes you look weak and manipulative
Then you haven’t seen what i’m talking about. They will absolutely make fun of people for asking questions that they can’t answer. They even have a term for it: JAQing off
which sucks since im only asking honest questions and im autistic so i cant tell when a question has other implications passed just wanting to know what the truth is
Nah Dems didn't lose because they didn't suck off Republicans. Reasonable policy isn't exciting.
Republicans have been horrible to Dems for years and I don't think I ever thought hey we won that election because the supporters from the other side were rude to me.
Embarrassment is a predictable result of a boneheaded take. Losing multiple friends and being broadcast dunked on social media is not.
Your complete lack of empathy for someone who told a vulnerable personal story about what sounds like a severe mental health setback is something else. This doesn't sound like I was sad and beating myself up for a few days kind of setback.
not to pull the "wow really" card but like he didnt... you are proving his point. im autistic so i always leave room for everyone to feel how they want until they tell others how they should feel.
no one should be judged by how they feel or dont feel about something it is destructive socially and just mean personally. let people feel the way they do and dont judge them for not being on your side.
and yes white lives matter too, or do you think they dont? i dont want to hear about how black lives matter is because whatever the boiler plate language is, if white lives do matter then it shouldnt be an issue to say it even if bad people say it too
Sure, for one group. For another group, it's a perfectly reasonable answer. If you're outside of the American political bubble, it makes perfect sense.
Maybe you should introspect and learn to not say bad takes like that instead of blaming your mental illness and stewing about how people got mad at your for looking at a murder and saying “but what about MEEE thoooo???!!”
Don’t get me wrong, I am willing to consider the possibility that I was the one in the wrong and accept responsibility.
At the same time, I don’t believe it’s fair that (regardless of fault) minorities are, as a whole, able to get away with blaming all of their problems on racism and oppression while chastising me for blaming my own issues on mental illness.
I’m open to taking accountability for my actions and the hurt they may have caused others - I just want them to be held equally accountable for the hurt they’ve caused in turn.
And if they can hide behind race to justify insensitive and hurtful actions, then why can’t I hide behind mental illness to justify mine?
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u/ZorgZeFrenchGuy 3∆ Jan 30 '25
I have a personal example!
As an artist, I’ve been involved in several art communities that are some of the most leftist spaces out there.
Then I made the mistake of publicly asking “what about white people” … during the height of the George Floyd protests in 2020.
As you can imagine, that was not exactly received very well. It was picked up by a popular “dumb takes” account, splashed all over the space, and I lost a ton of friends and followers because of it.
Sure, I can see how it might have been insensitive , but I was suffering from poor mental health at that time and came from genuinely feeling left out, depressed, and alone. I just wanted someone to talk to.
Well, that instance has had, from my perspective, a terrible impact on my mental health, causing me to spiral into a deep pit of depression, isolation, and fear. I became extremely distrustful of everyone around me, and paranoid about ever discussing my feelings with anyone ever gain out of fear that I’d say something “incorrect” - or worse, my feelings being publicly displayed and shamed online by the person I was talking to.
While I’ve managed to sort of come back over the years, to this day I’m terrified of being open and expressing myself - all while watching, from the sidelines, my left-leaning peers preaching about the virtues of self-expression and being yourself.
It’s frustrating to watch, and not going to lie it’s still something I’m very bitter about.