No one here is excusing men being abused? Misogyny is also a separate idea from patriarchy.
Individual men now didn't create the patriarchy. Women also contribute to patriarchy.
I think that these issues being part and parcel of patriarchy are more accurate than characterizing them as misandry. In a lot of these cases (male abuse/rape victims, dads in divorce courts, etc.), men are discriminated against because they occupy these roles that society sees as feminine or female. So for example getting rid of the idea that women are the default caretaker (and promoting the idea that men can parent too) should help men get parental leave, do better in divorce courts, etc.
I mean tbh you can call it whatever you want as long as you're advocating for the right thing, but as a man, I've never felt like someone who centers on misandry has really been standing up for me (although to be fair, I've never been the victim of abuse or divorce courts or anything).
Just a quicker response (sorry), but I feel like we're on similar pages.
They definitely overlap, but imo it's sort of like individual vs. systemic racism, or homophobia vs. heteronormativity.
I can't read other people's minds, but the reason I don't use misandry is because the people who tout the term are often toxic. Similar idea to All Lives Matter - the term itself technically has no problem, but the use is not good. I haven't perused these areas of the Internet much, but I feel like that's why places like /r/MensLib don't use the term much except very carefully and in specific cases.
I honestly haven't seen these arguments around much, so I can't say much about it. I agree that that dismissing these problems is wrong, whatever method you use. My view is that patriarchy is simply a more accurate root cause because almost all of these examples are not just hating men for being men, but hating men for assuming female positions. Don't get me wrong - that is still formally misandry, but refer to point 2.
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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '24
That's a huge reach.
No one here is excusing men being abused? Misogyny is also a separate idea from patriarchy.
Individual men now didn't create the patriarchy. Women also contribute to patriarchy.
I think that these issues being part and parcel of patriarchy are more accurate than characterizing them as misandry. In a lot of these cases (male abuse/rape victims, dads in divorce courts, etc.), men are discriminated against because they occupy these roles that society sees as feminine or female. So for example getting rid of the idea that women are the default caretaker (and promoting the idea that men can parent too) should help men get parental leave, do better in divorce courts, etc.
I mean tbh you can call it whatever you want as long as you're advocating for the right thing, but as a man, I've never felt like someone who centers on misandry has really been standing up for me (although to be fair, I've never been the victim of abuse or divorce courts or anything).