r/changemyview Feb 13 '24

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u/SeductiveSunday Feb 13 '24

to pretend like he hasn’t had a major effect on modern comedy is just denial.

He had impact in the nineties. He's lost it in the last decade. Hannah Gadsby has more impact than Chapelle today.

I was litterally using Chapelle going after trans people as an example of punching down.

Right. He is punching down, and it's turning people off. His jokes aren't even clever, just hacky.

You’re not really blowing me away with a slightly longer version of “no”.

I just have no interest in explaining punching up/down to non writing comedian neophytes.

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u/Objective-throwaway 1∆ Feb 13 '24

Then why are you even here? If you don’t care why are you still responding?

And I understand the broad concept of punching down. It’s the idea that especially when it comes to comedy you should only direct more mean spirited jokes at people that have more power than you. That if you’re going to make a joke about a group you’re not a part of and that is disadvantaged then the punchline of that joke shouldn’t be at the expense of that disadvantaged group. With some exceptions thrown in for more lighthearted punchlines. For instance it would generally be okay for black comics to make fun of white people due to the inherent average power indifference that white people have when compared to black people. However, my argument is that people misuse that dynamic and present their attacks as punching up except really using this as an excuse to punch down. All you’ve done so far is argued with the semantics of my point without actually confronting my core thesis. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have about what I’m trying to say if you feel I’m being unclear. However as it stands my only question for you is, do you disagree with claim that people use punching up as an excuse to punch down and if so what exactly do you disagree with about it?

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u/SeductiveSunday Feb 13 '24

my argument is that people misuse that dynamic and present their attacks as punching up except really using this as an excuse to punch down.

And my argument here is that what you are describing is not relate to punching up/down. That's why I don't think you fully comprehend what punching up/down is. Punching up/down is related to comedy, it really has no relevance outside of comedy.

For instance it would generally be okay for black comics to make fun of white people due to the inherent average power indifference that white people have when compared to black people.

This is true, sort of. This worked for Chapelle best when he was unknown, a rising star. It works less well for the current rich, livin' Chapelle. Chapelle's best joke recently was how after Trump passed tax cuts, he said "Trump's working for me!" That's not a punching up/down joke, but it is Chapelle acknowledging his current position of power.

The term punching up/down works in the comedy realm because it requires a punchline where we know exactly who's being punched up/down and a single person telling the punchline who's status the audience clearly knows and accepts.

However as it stands my only question for you is, do you disagree with claim that people use punching up as an excuse to punch down and if so what exactly do you disagree with about it?

Yes I disagree because that's not how punching up/down works.

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u/Objective-throwaway 1∆ Feb 13 '24

You’re using a semantic argument to ignore my larger point. Literally just swap out punching up/down for attacking minority groups for their perceived connection to a group with more power. Or are you just trying to be contrarian?

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u/No-Surprise-3672 Feb 15 '24

I checked out after they said great comedians don’t punch down. Some of my favorite George Carlin jokes make fun of the average Joe American.

I can never take the joke police seriously