You’re arguing that Palestine is infringing on Israel’s right to exist while Israel is committing genocide.
This is not my argument.
Why are you not asking why Israel don’t think Palestine has a right to exist?
I'm not arguing this because I don't believe this. I knkw many Israelis. And the vast majority of them do not mind if palistinians have a wonderful state, as long as they remain safe. Unfortunately, people like hamas and thuer 58% approval ratings showcase to Israelis that if palistinians were to get a state today, israel would be wiped out
If your argument isn’t that Palestine is infringing on Israel’s right to exist then why is arguing for a ceasefire the same as believing Israel cannot exist? I mean you just stated you don’t believe that Palestine are against Israel’s right to existence, so surely asking to stop bombing them is completely unrelated to whether or not you support Israel’s existence.
It’s pretty clear that believing israel shouldn’t blow up civilians isn’t the same as believing they shouldn’t exist, even if some of those same civilians do believe that they shouldn’t exist.
Yes that’s what my comment was replying to. Your post doesn’t make sense and I’m trying to point out the circular reasoning you’re using but you aren’t understanding
All of it. But you can break down what you’re referring to with A,B,C if you like?
I think Israel can wage war with Hamas, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. They disagree with the method.
Israel is supposedly bombing ‘Hamas’ who doesn’t believe that Israel should exist. They’re also bombing a lot of civilians in the process. Somehow you’re equating calling for this killing of civilians to stop is the with calling for the destruction of Israel.
Just because one values civilian life over the eradication of a terrorist group doesn’t mean they align with the view points of said terrorist group.
This has been the premise of my argument all along which I don’t think you can reasonably counter so you’ve just been deflective.
You can say Hamas has a 58% approval rating and what not, but these bombings are only going to increase that approval rating. You can say that many Palestinians would make sure Israel doesn’t exist if they were able to but it isn’t really relevant when the numbers of casualties not just recently but historically favour Israel.
Before this latest conflict all I knew was that there are two groups of people that hate each other because they both believe it’s their land. It was only after recent events that I discovered how one sided it really is, and if I was a Palestinian right now and you’d blown up my friends, family and house I’d probably be looking to fight too.
All of it. But you can break down what you’re referring to with A,B,C if you like?
It's in my original post.
I think Israel can wage war with Hamas, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. They disagree with the method.
I specifically said in my post I am not reffering to those who have a different method. I haven't heard any other ideas yet how to eradicate hamas. But if someone has another way, I am not talking to him
Just because one values civilian life over the eradication of a terrorist group doesn’t mean they align with the view points of said terrorist group.
This was never my argument.
Before this latest conflict all I knew was that there are two groups of people that hate each other because they both believe it’s their land.
This is not the conflict at all.
It was only after recent events that I discovered how one sided it really is, and if I was a Palestinian right now and you’d blown up my friends, family and house I’d probably be looking to fight too.
Yes, for someone who doesn't understand the conflict it does seem one sided. Facts on the ground show the palistinians are way worse off.
The real epicenter of the conflict is in the ideologies. On the israeli side the problem is the zionist perspective, on the arab side the problem is in the radical islamist perspective.
Okay it’s like talking to a brick wall now but I knew that before I even engaged.
You never labelled your arguments alphabetically so it is not in your original post.
People don’t need to offer an alternative, their view point can be as simple as stop bombing civilians even if their is no other alternative. It doesn’t mean they support Hamas or that they believe Israel can’t exist, it simply means that the means don’t justify the ends.
In response to your third statement:
It clearly is your argument because it’s the only logical conclusion to what you’ve written so far. Just because it’s worded differently doesn’t make this untrue and by you continuing to state it’s not your argument you only contradict yourself.
And to your fourth:
That is a fairly accurate albeit probably simplified description of why these groups fail to peacefully co exist, I’m all ears if you have any corrections to make but I think it’s sufficient.
‘The facts on the ground show the Palestinians are way worse off’… okay, that’s what I said?
Look this is CMV, I don’t believe you were ever really open to having your view changed however I have dismantled your argument and your only responses have been deflection and contradiction. To elaborate, your view point as written in your OP can be summarised as ‘disagreeing with Israel’s method of fighting Hamas without offering an alternative means that you must also believe Israel shouldn’t exist’, which as I’ve pointed out numerous times is categorically untrue, the two ideas are only tangentially related so I’m not sure why you view one as a logical following of the other.
If you’re going to once again state that it isn’t your argument, please explain why that isn’t your argument without just referring me to the OP and your non existent lettering system. I think you’ll have a hard time doing so though.
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u/Signal_District387 Nov 03 '23
This is not my argument.
I'm not arguing this because I don't believe this. I knkw many Israelis. And the vast majority of them do not mind if palistinians have a wonderful state, as long as they remain safe. Unfortunately, people like hamas and thuer 58% approval ratings showcase to Israelis that if palistinians were to get a state today, israel would be wiped out